Notice something banal about your faeces? Let Ryan know.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 23 Apr 2009, 10:01

he looked pretty bad in the last olympia

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 24 Apr 2009, 20:38

110kg x 5.

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 24 Apr 2009, 22:22

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 24 Apr 2009, 22:23

135 next workout, go for it!

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 24 Apr 2009, 22:25

You're pretty close to my dead lift record

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 24 Apr 2009, 22:27

Ninny or me?

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 04:16

[quote name="sade"]Ninny or me?[/quote]

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 26 Apr 2009, 04:21

You. And my memory is a little hazy, but I think I did manage 135 kg for 2.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 04:22

25kg is not that close, it'll still take me awhile. You should post all your PR's and then watch me beat them. Although I'm pretty weak at upperbody stuff.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 26 Apr 2009, 04:27

I don't remember much of my personal best lifts. Lift for your own sake, not to break some record. Do not let your obsession with increasing the weigh pulled or pushed compromise your motion and form. A snapped tendon or pulled muscle isn't worth it.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 04:30

I have perfect form.

But yea, I'm just trying to get into a discussion about strength training, it's motivational knowing what others can do.

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 26 Apr 2009, 13:04

Deadlift; 200 kg x 1

Bench press; ~110kg x 1 in a good day

squarsh; Somewhere around 180kg I quess.

No go beat my records Sade.

Oh and remember most important thing!

[quote name="ManOfSteel"]Lift for your own sake, not to break some record. Do not let your obsession with increasing the weigh pulled or pushed compromise your motion and form. A snapped tendon or pulled muscle isn't worth it.[/quote]

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 26 Apr 2009, 16:03

You've added to your deadlift, damn you Pentelesh I'll never pass you like this. squarsh is out of reach too. But I benchpressed 1*100 a couple of months ago, not so far off

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 17:32

how much do you guys weight?

a 200kg deadlift would put me at almost "elite". My weight is around 70kg, maybe 72.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifti ... dards.html

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 26 Apr 2009, 18:11

92-93 kg, depends what time of the day it is

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 26 Apr 2009, 19:26

86kg, 190lbs. I estimate I could lift 320lbs once so I'm only intermediate :( I did 130kg*4 again today, this seems all I can lift right now.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 20:15

I just did 120kg x 5. My last rep was sloppy and all nose picks felt difficult. I'm not going to increase the weight next deadlift workout (Thursday), just keep it the same.

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 26 Apr 2009, 20:18

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 21:48

I just ordered some chalk because on my last deadlift rep today I thought I was going to rip my hands open.

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 26 Apr 2009, 22:14

Sade; Whatkind of sets you do for deadlift?

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 26 Apr 2009, 22:34

On my deadlift day I do 5x5 Squats and 3x5 Overhead Press, so when I get to Deadlift I'm quite warmed up.

I only have one work set, 1x5. For my warm up I did 5x40, 5x50, 4x70, 3x80, 2x100, 1x110 and then my work set of 5x120.

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 26 Apr 2009, 23:52

Try this for deadlift

6 x 40 kg warm up with legs straight == Means work with your back.

Then 6 x 70 kg; 6 x 100 kg; 4 x 120 kg.

3 x 3 x 130 kg

2 x 4 x 120 kg

2 x 6 x 70 kg. On these two nose picks pay attention how you do it. Try to do the move as clearly/smoothly/rightly as possible.

That will help you to get the weight up.

If you want to practice 1's then do it like this;

6 x 70 kg; 3 x 100 kg, 1 x 125 kg

And the next lift is your max lift for the day; IE 1 x 145 kg.

Next week/time you max lift is 1 x 150 kg.

After the one lift you go back down and do as much of lift you want. But when you practice for just one lift always make sure that you don't go up UNLESS you are shure that you can get it up! It's a psychological factor.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 27 Apr 2009, 01:06

I think right now since I'm still making relatively "easy" gains and because I can judge my performance over time I'm just going to keep with my adding 5kg each workout (workset of 1x5).

But I will comment on what you've suggested in that I don't think my legs and back can take that much volume, I once tried doing 5 "heavy" sets and I was dead for a week, I couldn't squarsh, run or do anything, but I do see in the logs of experience lifters that many do more than just one work set.

I'm going to try what you suggested for a warm up though, keeping my legs straight for a few sets, it really makes sense, and possibly some back off sets too. I feel like I can give more with my deadlift in terms of volume but I know if I try to do more heavy work sets my body isn't going to respond well.

I'm on a routine that is mostly Mark Rippetoes Starting Strength but I replace powercleans with bentover rows and sometimes do 5 sets rather than his suggested 3 sets.

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 27 Apr 2009, 02:29

Your legs and back can take the volume if you do that right. If you want, drop 10-15 kg from what I suggested. Ofcourse you always nee to listen to your body. But when doing sets the last rep always needs to be done so that your face will look like an asshole of the predator bird. That's the way to gain the best effort from your workout

Doing only one "heavy" set will take you up to some point but after that it will stop. Plus you work with lower weights you get the correct movement better. If you something fundamentaly wrong on the lift it isn't as easy to in two years ahead then what it is now.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 27 Apr 2009, 03:37

When I start to stall I'll change it up, but for now I'll stick with it.

I'm close to really stalling on overhead press, or at least I think so, and I had failed on it twice already on 42.5kg (2 weeks ago) but I deloaded to 40kg, completed that and then completed 42.5 today. I'm thinking about alternating between seated or incline press and overhead press in the future.

Have you read Starting Strength (or Practical Programming)? How long have you been lifting? Do you have any other tips concerning the other major lifts?

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 27 Apr 2009, 10:12

[quote name="sade"]

Have you read Starting Strength (or Practical Programming)? How long have you been lifting? Do you have any other tips concerning the other major lifts?[/quote]

Nope, never heard of that book. I have only read 2-3 books concerning weightlifting. One was a book by Tony Halme.

Been lifting maybe 8 years but most of the time my aim on weights has not been to gain absolute power; it has been gaining speed and toughness thru power. For the last 2 years (and especially last winter) i've been lifting weights to gain more power.

On what lifts do you want tips?

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 27 Apr 2009, 20:52

So what has influenced (literature etc) your routines for increasing your power, do you do some kind of MMA?

With tips, I was just wondering about some of the techniques you used when getting through stalls, which I'm seeing now with my upperbody work. Like what set/rep combinations help and lifts that compliment others.

This is probably mostly in relation to my bench and overhead presses since I think I'll need help on those before my squarsh and deadlift.

Here is a copy of Starting Strength, it's a very basic book for beginners, but there is some information in there that I think are just interesting for anyone interested in sports training. http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zinzjhyimwt

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 27 Apr 2009, 23:41

No, I don't do MMA, I do Brazilian Jiu-Jutsu. Basically it is mat wrestling. Check out youtube there is bunch of clips.

Thanks for the book, I need to look into it when I have more time.

But elaborate a bit; what do you mean with a stall? you mean that you are not gettin your weights up?

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 30 Apr 2009, 04:17

failing means that you can't do the nose picks that you went into the gym planning to complete.

stalling means that you are unable to make progress over say 2 or 3 workouts.

Those are my definitions or as I understand the terms in weightlifting.

I was asking just to get your personal experiences, rather than reading some website written by someone I know nothing about. For example, when finding the benchpress tough, people suggest exercises (other than bench) to help increase the weights, such as dumbbell press or decline press. Have you had any experiences like that?

I was at the gym yesterday and some other kid there my age (he's aiming to break the junior UK squarsh record of 220kg) tried to improve my deadlift form, I didn't really thank him because at the time it felt unnatural, but I'll thank him next time because he suggested putting more legs into it and I really want to do that.

Also 120kgx5 felt easier that time, I'll try 125 tomorrow, but I should stop with so much deadlift, I will get burned out since I do it almost every workout

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 30 Apr 2009, 04:24

Today I had breakfats, sarded lunch, had sport during the afternoon ( swimming pool. 25 meters for 60 times, frog style and free style). Tonight for lunch a fish and some green salad. I want to lost absolutley weight. I hope tomorrow will be sunny ( is from a week here that is total rainy and thunderstorms), so I will go jogging.

sade are u jogging in this last times?

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 30 Apr 2009, 04:29

fuck running

I stopped for like 2 weeks because of shin splints, started up last week, two short runs (only 20 minutes) then I ran on Monday, 45 minutes... now my legs are fucked. I tried running earlier and I had to stop after 10 minutes, too much pain.

I really want to get a job and buy a bike, I think my shins could deal with that... I'm too weak for running.

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 30 Apr 2009, 04:31

Biking is amazing, you can get into this one If u think is better for your body. hope u get well sade. Stay quiet if your legs hurt. You'll be fine. Good luck

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 Apr 2009, 08:08

I remember about 8 years ago I had just gotten back into biking and I was "bah who needs to stretch? Stretching is for pussies"

A few weeks into biking I started waking up to severe muscle cramps in my calves the size of tennis balls! I literally had to punch them out because massaging did nothing and it felt like my calf muscles were just going to outright rip apart! A couple nights of waking up at 4am to this and I started stretching.

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 30 Apr 2009, 14:07

[quote name="sade"]failing means that you can't do the nose picks that you went into the gym planning to complete.

stalling means that you are unable to make progress over say 2 or 3 workouts.

Those are my definitions or as I understand the terms in weightlifting.

I was asking just to get your personal experiences, rather than reading some website written by someone I know nothing about. For example, when finding the benchpress tough, people suggest exercises (other than bench) to help increase the weights, such as dumbbell press or decline press. Have you had any experiences like that?

I was at the gym yesterday and some other kid there my age (he's aiming to break the junior UK squarsh record of 220kg) tried to improve my deadlift form, I didn't really thank him because at the time it felt unnatural, but I'll thank him next time because he suggested putting more legs into it and I really want to do that.

Also 120kgx5 felt easier that time, I'll try 125 tomorrow, but I should stop with so much deadlift, I will get burned out since I do it almost every workout

[/quote]

Me ist nich an native English gesprechen mannen so sometimes I really need to work on understanding.

But Failing and Stalling, that could be a cause of your diet or that you are just generally tired. I've always tried to keep kind of a rhythm that every 8th week is a week off from gym. Well, doesn't work like that to me. On the 8th week I usually go normally to the gym but I only do about 30-50 % of the normal weights.

But the stalling you wanted to know. I've had some pretty long stalls sometimes. IE on benchpressing it was about 5 years

There can be numerous reasons for not getting the weights up.

a) pressure, I need to do it

b) too tired, Haven't recovered from last practice

c) bad diet, not eaten enough.

My personal problem is usually option a. Example on my benchpress. I could do 3 x 95 kg easily but not 1 x 100 kg. It was all about inside my head because I couldn't get myself "pumped up" for the one move. Plus other thing was that I did too much warming up.

General idea of weightlifting training is that you go to gym to practice and you got one major muscle group move (legs, arms, tits, back). First you do one very heavy set for example Squats and then 3-4 more moves for kind of "back up movements" (don't know better word) like biceps, calfs. Some people say that your body can endure and gain the power for the first 45 minutes of your training and after that the gain % falls down fastly. Now If you do for example 90 minutes sets in gym, you workout your whole body so that it aches the next two days it actaully takes something like 4-5 days to recover fully. Now this is one the reasons why set weights might not get up in the same way they used to go.

This one is bit harder to explain in English so bear with me. One thing which also causes it is thing that I call "over fittness". Can't make up any better word for it.

It is consequence of you being in too good shape on your nose picks (ie. you can deadloift 6 x 6 x 160 kg but can't get 185 kg for even once) This is usually a result of doing the same workout every time you go to gym (let's say for persons who go 3-5 times to gym in a week and lift 130 % of their own weight)

Best advice I can give you is take rest for a week or two. If you don't get ill during that time your weights should not come down. You might even improve a bit. Resting is the phase when your muscles do evolve. You should also look into your diet a bit. If you really want to gain more power then Rice is not the best option for you

Also after the workout the first 30 minutes are very important to you. Your muscles are asking for a lot of building material; proteins, carbos, little wheeneytiinietinytoes or whatever. What I do directly after gym is I eat one or many bananas and protein shake. My shake is a mix of carbos (around 30 g) and protein (around 40 g) and whatever else there is included in the bags.

I need to split now, I will write you more later to today. Need to focus on my work a bit more

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 30 Apr 2009, 18:39

I think "back up exercises" are sometimes known as "assistance exercises" for example, at the end of my workouts I do chin ups and hyperextensions.

I'm not going to do deadlift next week, my elbow hurt and I only got 3x125kg today, but I also just felt fatigued in my back.

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 30 Apr 2009, 18:43

[quote name="abzu"] I was "bah who needs to stretch? Stretching is for pussies"

[/quote]

ahaha, same here

________

today running, is very sunny here

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 30 Apr 2009, 19:58

[quote name="sade"]I think "back up exercises" are sometimes known as "assistance exercises" for example, at the end of my workouts I do chin ups and hyperextensions.

I'm not going to do deadlift next week, my elbow hurt and I only got 3x125kg today, but I also just felt fatigued in my back.[/quote]

Hmm, Yes. Assistance Exercise would describe it perfectly

For example your benchpress problem.

A) Check your benchpress position and style from someone who knows it perfectly. If you know it's good then fine, skip it.

B) Warm up a bit before going to doing benchpresses. Jogging or cycling is not the best option here in my opinion. I say do this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwk0Zbzhlsk ) and/or this ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KREk39uyq40 ). I think latter is called Snatch? For the first one do 3 x 3 on 30 kg and / or latter 3 x 3 on 25kg. This is just to get your blood moving.

Let's assume that you want to do 2 x 90 kg on Bench. ==> 20 x bar (or less), 6 x 40 kg, 4 x 60, 2 x 75, 2 x 90. After that you don't do no more of that 2 x 90. go back and do ie. 3 x 3 x 80 kg. And then pump up as much as you want when coming down.

One other way that you can try is this. Let's say your max 1is 100 kg. You do 5 x 5 on 75 kg, next time 4x4 on 82,5 kg, next time 3 x 3 on 87,5, next week 2 x 2 on 95 kg, last time 1 x 1 on 100 kg. Then you start the set over except this time you add 2,5 kg or maybe 5 kg to every set. This method is actually very efficient if you just have the enthusiasm to do it.

And I think you already know about the pyramid method?

I got 2 day workout plan that I have been doing for most of this winter. What I do is 2 major muscle groups at the time.

Day 1: Snatch, squarsh, benchpress, shoulders with barbels (lifting from side to up and from ear-level to up, extensors (pull over is my favorite

), back shoulders

Usually for shoulders and extensors I do 2-3 different moves. And my last set on benchpress is 3 x 20 x 40-50 kg on militarypress style. That will really make your arms and shoulders cry for air

Day 2: Snatch, deadlift, Rowing (both horizontal and/or vertical direction), Biceps on scots bench and sometimes with barbells.

And at the end of both days lots of abdominals + this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iskj6iwWTU which is a great movement for your extensors and middle body.

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 30 Apr 2009, 21:03

I generally jog to my gym (only 3 minutes of jogging) and go right into my workout witgh my warm up sets, not really optimal. But the warm up you suggested sounds really good, they are both techniques that I would love to learn (power-clean and snatch) but they are difficult techniques.

I've tried power-clean but it seems difficult, I also tried overhead squats (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjuULPqI-WY), kind of like a snatch stance, but so difficult to balance. I might need someone to coach me through these techniques, but I will try powercleans on my own next workout.

I know pyramid systems, but I have no expereince with it, other than reading about it, but it's good to see an actual person promoting things like this.

Your plan looks really good, basic lifts that cover the whole body. But what is a scots bench??

Alos, that last youtube video you posted...that looks impossible for me, I will build up my body first before I attempt something like that. I usually see it like this though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBxMFfvOkg

This is what I do:

A: squarsh (5x5), Benchpress (5x5), Bentover Rows (5x5)

B: Squats (5x5), Overhead Press (3x5), Deadlift (1x5)

sometimes my 5x5 becomes a 3x5 if time is tight, and I see myself moving towards 3x5 as things move on since I need more rest between sets. I end my workouts with 3 sets of chin ups and 3 sets of hyperextensions.

How is your progress going? What goals do you have? Have you ever thought about plyometrics for power development?

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 30 Apr 2009, 21:15

Yes, power-clean and snatch are both very risky and difficult technigues. But when done right they are very good moves for whole body. The best way to learn that is just picking up a broom stick and practising with that for a while. If I remember right the book you provided has snatch in it?

Importante!!! Stick, barbel, what-ever most go near your body/belly, umbilicus. Otherwise you might find yourself in trouble when using bigger weights. It will kill youl shoulders, chest and make your balance unstable

And when doing power-cleans keep your hands on shoulder lewel when holding the barbell. Not wider. If you have wide grip when you turn your arms it might hurt your elbows pretty badly (experience).

EDIT: Ab wheel; You can do that also with your knees down on ground. Just put something under your knees while doing it. It might hurt. But this is way better move then normal abs. When you start doing this move slowly. You nose don't need to touch the ground on the first time you do this.

Pyramid method was something that did not work for me but i know lot's of people that use that ie for benchpress. 7 x 70kg, 6 x 75 kg, 5 x 80 kg, 4 x 85kg, 3 x 90 kg, 2 x 95 kg, 3 x 1 x 100 kg, 2 x 2 x 90 kg, 2 x 3 x 85kg etc. Time consuming method. I do this with a little modification so that I skip nose picks on my way up and when coming down I do like 3 x 3 xyz kg 2 x 4 x yxz kg etc.

Scotch bench; can't find any good photo but you sit down on bench, put your extensions on a pad that on your "lap" and do biceps. It's a good equipment because you don't use your body to give speed to the barbell when excercising.

Right now I'm going to maintain my power for the summer. A month ago I decided that I play baseball (finnish version) this summer and thus I need to concentrate my weight lifting back to gain more speed than strenght. Meaning, more power-cleans and snatches + not doing squatches or deadlifts every week.

I think next winter my goal is to get 220 on deadlift, 130 kg on power-clean and bench press 130 kg. If I can do that by end of April 2010 I will be happy \o/

Dec 6th my thumb "rolled over" and I couldn't lift weights, wrestle or do any sports with that hand for 3 months. So it was a big setback. All I could do at gym that time was deadlift (not 100 %).So that was frustrating. My goal for this april was to get deadlift 200 kg (succeeded), becnh 115 (not) and power-clean 120 (not) 115 still my record on that :\

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 01 May 2009, 05:12

the book has powercleans, not snatch. powercleans seem to be much more popular, maybe because they are safer (bar not being over your head). i have tried to do them before (actually I used to do it to set up my overhead press), but you really need rubber plates and the confidence to drop the bar and make loud noises in front of people.

I will try an ab wheel some day, I think they really build balance/stability. I do hyperextensions (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Ere ... nsion.html) with weight and they build back stability.

There is a scotch press in my gym, used for curls... right now I'm not really into them, maybe in a year or so. I feel they are more of a bodybuilding thing, I am going for strength.

Those are some big goals, do you wish to stay the same bodyweight?

Also on injuries... today I woke up with elbow pain, but I have 3 days of no lifting so I will recover.

Is Ninny reading this thread?? what exercises (other than deadlift) do you do?

Mr. P · Post by **Mr. P** » 02 May 2009, 17:29

I don't mid if my bodyweight gets up. I was actually thinking that If I succeede with my goals I would be about 0.1t right now

I gained 7 kg of muscle on winter 2007-08. This winter I gained actually none due my injuries. I was 94 kg on december thou.

You can do power-clean by starting right abowe your knees. You don't need to put the weights down on ground. Wrestlers, short length runners usually do it abowe knee caps (snatch too)

I do hyperextensions too after as last gym exercise. But I don't do it with weights anymore. I put so much pressure on my back on other exercises so it is kind of a extra move for me. But it's a good move too.

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 02 May 2009, 18:54

I want to do the snatch but they seem so hard technically

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 02 May 2009, 19:53

[quote name="Ninny"]I want to do the snatch but they seem so hard technically[/quote]

sigged

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 02 May 2009, 21:46

Surprise siggery but yes it's a silly post now that I look at it again

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 03 May 2009, 03:09

I'm going to try to do these lifts in the future, might even do some snatch grip overhead squats just to get myself comfortable with that... I also saw something called "drop snatch" on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixPkeMFy9cc

powerclean.. i might do some hang cleans from around the knee. but I still want to keep my program the same, these are just assistance / fun.

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 03 May 2009, 03:17

I really really really would like to kill my belly but I don't know how . Running,bike and swim seems not enough

What I have to do??? to avoid totally eating?? unacceptable. I love food

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 03 May 2009, 03:20

heavy squats.

i ran, 5 days a week. but always had a stomach, even when skinny.. now i squarsh and i see my chest and stomach improving so quickly.

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 03 May 2009, 03:28

Interesting....

Sade, for someone that wants to start, how many Kilos is good? I don't want to break my spine

bills bro · Post by **bills bro** » 03 May 2009, 03:58

I would say read the book I posted earlier (you have to download it and read it in Adobe Reader) - http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zinzjhyimwt

but if you don't want to do that, the simple answer is start with the bar (the bar is 20kg) and do 3 sets of 5 repititions, add weight (5 or 2.5kilo) each workout, until you cannot add any more easily.

But if you really want to lift weights, you should read the book, it is not as simple as walking in there and doing exercises, you have to know the techniques and why you are there.

Pentelesh may have other advice, he's much more experienced.

ANGEL OF DESEASE · Post by **ANGEL OF DESEASE** » 03 May 2009, 03:59

tnks sade