My thoughts on Illud after some time: a review

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 06 Jun 2011, 21:52

After several vacillations upon hearing the Amazon samples, then the iTunes samples and then finally the leak itself, I have reached the following conclusion:

This is actually not Morbid Angel's 'Unspoken King'. Is it Morbid Angel's 'Swansong' - is what I am wondering.

My initial impression upon hearing the album was that it was a rather poor one by any standard, a disappointing effort by Morbid Angel. I remember the first time I listened to it, it bored me so much that I struggled to stay awake. With the exception of Existo Vulgore and Nevermore, I did not like a single track on it. Soon after, I communicated my displeasure to 'Derek Waters'. And over the next few days I didn't care go back to listen to it again.

Yet, the tunes remained in my head. This prompted me to listen to the songs again yesterday to see if they were as bad as they seemed initially. To my astonishment, I have found that there is much to like about this album.

I have taken a special liking to Destructos. I now hear what I didn't hear before. Guitar parts that lift up the song. 2:00-2:20 anyone? How about 5:21-6:26? I like the way the song starts. It's heavy, like a slab of iron.

Beauty Meets Beast is a track I have begun to enjoy immensely as well. This whole track has a story to tell, I can feel the emotion in it. I can feel it's melody. Vincent's "aahs" fit in.

10 more dead was the only track from the Amazon and iTunes samples that I didn't like. Now I think it is a fucking ferocious track. Not only does it start off with a cool groove, it also gains a pace from 2:10 onwards that will kick your nuts off. From 2:42-2:58, that's pure Morbid Angel fury.

I Am Morbid is again an enormously groovy track. The lyrics initially upset me like they did everyone else. But now I just don't give a fuck about them. Is it not obvious that they are just plain silly? They are clearly not meant to serve as spiritual guidance. 3:40-4:00 soloing? Very Celtic Frostish if you've heard 'To Mega Therion'. I have no trouble enjoying this song again and again. The Manowar references are wrong. This song is heavier and manlier in all respects.

In Blades for Baal, do you hear that basswork from 0:18-0:33? Yea, the reason it's there is to upgrade the awesomeness of this track right before it comes at you like a boot in the face. This is a very Covenant-like attack. Unrelenting, unforgiving in its fury.

Too Extreme was probably the track I disliked the most when I heard it in its entirety the first time. It just seemed like a jumble, a bunch of disconnected parts added together for no reason. The long pauses between the parts bothered me a lot. I felt as if Morbid Angel had forgotten how to make a song. Now strangely, the whole song seems like a continuous whole and keeps me hooked from start to finish. Especially the beginning, 0:00-0:28 pulls me in, it's great.

I must stop here and acknowledge that this has been a partial review. The reason I cannot offer a complete review is that my perception of the album is evolving, transforming as I listen to it more and more. This is why I will not write about Radikult or Mea Culpa, I simply have not heard them enough because I have been entirely absorbed with the above songs since yesterday and will continue to remain absorbed in them for days more. I will talk about Radikult and Mea Culpa much much later.

vega · Post by **vega** » 06 Jun 2011, 22:06

illlud is great because of at least the 5 good death metal songs.

blades, nevermore, existo, 10 more, beauty is

darkreignofset · Post by **darkreignofset** » 06 Jun 2011, 22:08

I have done the same as you...Listened, listened and listened some more and I can not agree with you, this is terrible and hopefully morbid angel will say just kidding guys heres the real record. if not then I will respect there decision to do whatever they wanted to do musically even if that meant career suicide. 2 good tracks don't make up for 8 silly ones, at least we have vintage morbid angel that is timeless and we can always listen to that

Victor Frankenstein · Post by **Victor Frankenstein** » 06 Jun 2011, 22:18

There's one thing I don't get: why everybody demand of Morbid Angel to behave like Morbid Angel? What's wrong with us? Are we their parents? Teachers? Or what? They do what they do. We, the fans, listen to it or not. Why so serious? I didn't expect a thing from them and got this cool album. It's not Morbid Angel and I don't think it should be. It they released another half-Heretic or semi-inspired FFtF then we would have the reason to rage and to be disapointed. I understand that a lot of people is disapointed with this but it's not Morbid Angel's fault. It's your wrong assumptions and expectations.

Svartmetall · Post by **Svartmetall** » 06 Jun 2011, 22:57

[quote name="IRONMAN"]This is actually not Morbid Angel's 'Unspoken King'. Is it Morbid Angel's 'Swansong' - is what I am wondering...[/quote]

I've been using the Celtic Frost yardstick; for a while I'd been fearing this was Morbid Angel's 'Cold Lake', but I'm more and more convinced it's their 'Into The Pandemonium'. With the mighty Frost, I prefer 'To Mega Therion' but I still really like 'Into The Pandemonium'. Now, while I think it's safe to say I prefer 'FFtF' or 'C' to 'IDI', in exactly the same way I still really like 'IDI'; in fact I think right now, 4-5 days after I first got hold of a copy, I'm enjoying it more than I was enjoying 'H' after the same time period.

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 06 Jun 2011, 23:48

[quote name="Victor Frankenstein"]There's one thing I don't get: why everybody demand of Morbid Angel to behave like Morbid Angel? What's wrong with us? Are we their parents? Teachers? Or what? They do what they do. We, the fans, listen to it or not. Why so serious? I didn't expect a thing from them and got this cool album. It's not Morbid Angel and I don't think it should be. It they released another half-Heretic or semi-inspired FFtF then we would have the reason to rage and to be disapointed. I understand that a lot of people is disapointed with this but it's not Morbid Angel's fault. It's your wrong assumptions and expectations.[/quote]

The fault lies in calling it Morbid Angel. As you so laid out: you ultimately don't want Morbid Angel, you want this. "This" is something else. Our expectations are based on wanting not "this" but Morbid Angel. There is no mistake in that. There is no fault in expectation. If there is, you are just as guilty of expecting a piece of food to taste like that food when you eat it. I suspect you repeat to eat food or anythign for thatmatter that you enjoy, no? And so it's true for anybody who was expecting Morbid Angel to be Morbid Angel. The mistake is the misnomer of their name being on this record, nothing besides.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 00:51

This review made me listen to the album again.

Existo is a breath of fresh air thanks to Too Extreme, which is the wrong reason for a song to be good. On its own, it's alright.

Blades for Baal has great music, I just can't stand David's vocals on it anymore. Especially not the backing/gang vocals (same on 10 More Dead and Nevermore). That bassline is very cool though.

Then Nevermore kicks in after those other tracks, and IMO the better track. But it's positive impact on me, is also thanks to the song that goes before it; Destructos. Again, wrong reason for Nevermore to sound better than it is. Still, the middle part is brilliant!

I don't really care for Beauty Meets Beast. The main riff caught my attention the first time, but I just get bored with it very quickly. The last solo is great and the sound totally takes me back to Formulas. But then it just stops way too soon! A missed chance IMO.

The other tracks I haven't mentioned are just a total joke to me. I'm not even going to talk about them, other than they completely disappoint me. Not because they are something "new", but because IMO they are done extremely poorly.

Spirits of the Deep Waters · 07 Jun 2011, 01:33

My view on the album has changed quite slightly after the latest listenings i've done. I try to look at it from another angle this time. I think Existo, Nevermore, 10 More Dead and even Beatuy is good songs, and they will probably grow on me, just like any other new album that comes out during these days. And now for songs like Too Extreme and Meaculpa etc, I try to look at these songs as the MA songs that they never had the guts to do, and I try to appreciate the fact that they're actually doing it. I've compared it alot to BATS and I think that these records are pretty similiar to each other, not musically but they're showing the listener that they're MORE than just death metal. The classical pieces on Blessed did actually fit on the album, it went perfect for the whole atmosphere. And I think that Too Extreme and Mea Culpa will do the same. I mean listen to In Rememberance and Desolate One. What did the hardcore Death Metal bands think of that? I'm sure alot of people spew alot of shit over it "Not for being true" or whatever. Even on Heretic Trey had some crazy shit going one with Place of Many Deaths and those kind of songs, but now they're taking it a bit further, they have actualy SONGS with those kind of things. Morbid Angel is the band releasing this album, the same David and Trey that wrote the first 4 records. We are the fans, who are we to judge them? Who are we to tell them they're NOT Morbid Angel? It's a matter of taste and interpretation; you like it, or you don't. But it's still MA.

What if you changed your style of clothing one day and maybe got a new haircut or something, and then the people around you tells you "Hey Mathew, you're not Matthew anymore because you are not like you used to be. You better go change your name or something, to Claude or something because you're simply not the same anymore."

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:13

I don't like mixing superficial changes with changes at the core. And in fact, the vibe and musical themes of each previous Morbid Angel record contained those superficial and yet creative embellishments from album to album where it did not change the perception of the impression of what Morbid Angel is. Illud conveys just the opposite. It doesn't exude power and a menancing assualt, as each previous album did in their similar but unique ways, but cornball antics engineered to atttract another kind of fanbase.

And yes, we are the fans: the external and validating force that identified with who MA was in the past and with each subsequent release. We have the utmost right to judge and evaluate what we've validated.

It's nonsense to say an artist will do their own thing without ANY regard to how fans feel. If that's the case, then write music for yourself in your basement. What we can't say or judge are the individuals who make up Morbid Angel as individuals. That's their own personal right and life path. BUT they conversely don't really have a right or I should say it's unbecoming to label such a digression as "Morbid Angel". Do something else then; name it something else.

Metal_Sucks · Post by **Metal_Sucks** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:28

I think this album is like their LOAD/RISK/ENDORAMA/FEEL SORRY FOR THE FANATIC type of album, but the difference with those albums i mentioned is that Illud has at least 5 Death metal tracks in morbid style, and the others are 1 commercial metal track, 1 marilyn manson rip off ,and 3 experiments with techno-industrial.So overall its a better album than those i mentioned, but mediocre comparing it to Morbid previous discography.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:34

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]Do something else then; name it something else.[/quote]

I don't get why you keep insisting on this specific point. I understand you don't like the album like a lot of others, but you are distinguished from them in your insistence on this highly trivial point.

You obviously aren't going to buy this album, so it makes little difference to you what name they put it out under.

Grudge · Post by **Grudge** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:36

Also, last I checked, Morbid Angel isn't your creation

jawn galliano · Post by **jawn galliano** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:38

the thor songs are death metal sure, but they don't really sound like morbid angel to me, outside of having DV on vocals.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:41

Dave stopped being a good vocalist/lyricist on Domination and his time in the Genitorturers just pushed him further down the path of suckery.

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 02:48

[quote name="IRONMAN"]
[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]Do something else then; name it something else.[/quote]

I don't get why you keep insisting on this specific point. I understand you don't like the album like a lot of others, but you are distinguished from them in your insistence on this highly trivial point.

You obviously aren't going to buy this album, so it makes little difference to you what name they put it out under.[/quote]

I know right, I keep having to bring that point up. I wonder why?

What does Morbid angel not being my creation have to do with anything?

@ Derek Waters Spot on

darkreignofset · Post by **darkreignofset** » 07 Jun 2011, 03:25

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]I don't like mixing superficial changes with changes at the core. And in fact, the vibe and musical themes of each previous Morbid Angel record contained those superficial and yet creative embellishments from album to album where it did not change the perception of the impression of what Morbid Angel is. Illud conveys just the opposite. It doesn't exude power and a menancing assualt, as each previous album did in their similar but unique ways, but cornball antics engineered to atttract another kind of fanbase.

And yes, we are the fans: the external and validating force that identified with who MA was in the past and with each subsequent release. We have the utmost right to judge and evaluate what we've validated.

It's nonsense to say an artist will do their own thing without ANY regard to how fans feel. If that's the case, then write music for yourself in your basement. What we can't say or judge are the individuals who make up Morbid Angel as individuals. That's their own personal right and life path. BUT they conversely don't really have a right or I should say it's unbecoming to label such a digression as "Morbid Angel". Do something else then; name it something else.[/quote] my thoughts exactly brutha.

neckred · Post by **neckred** » 07 Jun 2011, 03:30

this excrement has been deleted from my pc a few days ago, much like one would flush some down the toilet

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 04:15

I don't like mixing superficial changes with changes at the core. And in fact, the vibe and musical themes of each previous Morbid Angel record contained those superficial and yet creative embellishments from album to album where it did not change the perception of the impression of what Morbid Angel is. Illud conveys just the opposite. It doesn't exude power and a menancing assualt, as each previous album did in their similar but unique ways, but cornball antics engineered to atttract another kind of fanbase.

(...)Do something else then; name it something else.

Plus fucking one. This IDI could have passed if Trey or David would've tag it under their name, much like Devin Townsend do his own stuff, because he is everything, he's an artist. But the day Trey named his band 'Morbid Angel', it's the same day he created an entity, that's what we try to communicate here. That's why this 'name it something else' rings so true.

I've compared it alot to BATS and I think that these records are pretty similiar to each other, not musically but they're showing the listener that they're MORE than just death metal.

No, they are not similar. It lacks the spirit, it's total change at its core, much like TM has put it.

It's a matter of taste and interpretation; you like it, or you don't.

It isn't IMO. When you are in a band, every piece of music you put under it is in context. IMO it has to be linked in some un-superficial way (and telling that various pieces of music are created by the same person is exactly that - superficial). Look, no one asked from them to make another ABCDEFGH, just upgrading, building upon.

What if you changed your style of clothing one day and maybe got a new haircut or something, and then the people around you tells you "Hey Mathew, you're not Matthew anymore because you are not like you used to be. You better go change your name or something, to Claude or something because you're simply not the same anymore."

With this you fail in proving your point. What they did on IDI is like installing a new brain into their skull, not like changing close or getting a new haircut. Think about it.

Also, last I checked, Morbid Angel isn't your creation

What the fuck is this? No one denies them their rights. This is not a proper argument AT ALL.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 04:21

Seriously, discussions here on Illud are much better now that WTSL is out of them. Thanks for your input here Ironman, Uros and Transcending

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:01

Is he banned?

Has anybody heard those 72 layers of (guitar) tracks?

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:03

[quote name="VΩI∆"]Seriously, discussions here on Illud are much better now that WTSL is out of them. Thanks for your input here Ironman, Uros and Transcending

[/quote]

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:13

[quote name="Mutilator"]Is he banned?

Has anybody heard those 72 layers of (guitar) tracks?[/quote]

He's banned for a week.

And no I do not hear those 72 layers of guitars. After about 8 layers you don't really hear them anymore. I did 72 tracks with a turkish hardrock band for a couple of their songs, but that was because;

- each guitar take was recorded with 3 mics and a DI track (so 4 tracks already).

- the songs that had these layers were all built out of small chords of 2 or 3 notes, making huge harmonies. That all really made sense, composition wise and mix wise.

I don't hear anything special in Trey's layered guitars. Only that they sound like mary-go-round carnaval shit.

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:15

speaking strictly composition wise, yea I don't see why 72 layers was needed at all

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:16

Maybe they used so much tracks to avoid doing much of automation, like every riff or something per track.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:17

that wouldn't make sense

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:23

I think uros is referring to comping the tracks together...? Well, that would be a "normal" idea in mixing but the way it was stated in an interview [was it vincent who said it I believe? If somebody can correct me if I'm wrong] was that they are actual layers. That's just strange to have that many layers. Tom you'd know just as well one either uses many layers to impart tone and different character or you have orchestrated

arrangement to build harmonies and chords. So yea, weird and extensive in this case

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:24

The 72 layers seem like a gimmick to me on Illud. To make it sound sophisticated and interesting when doing interviews.

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:25

I think you are pretty much right about that...

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:25

Yes David said that.

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:26

Ok then, that reinforces the gimmick/pretentious idea to do it

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:30

I meant for example if you have one guitar part which peaks at certain value, and the other is louder/quieter - so, maybe mix engineer didn't automate guitar levels, but rather used new track for every new part.

It easily could be that they did 72 tracks for some song, and that Vincent is not so familiar with audio engineering. So he saw all those tracks, asked mixing engineer 'how many tracks are there?', got the answer, and then went '72 different layers, fuck yeah'.

edit: fuck yeah, Void

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:32

Btw, Rammstein did it too on one of their records. Their guitarist said it just didn't work for them when thinking back on it (while doing an interview for Liebe Ist Für Alle Da). So really, a lot of musicians have already tried recording so many guitar parts, or synthesizer parts for that matter (Neurosis - "Through Silver in Blood").

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:33

[quote name="Uros"]I meant for example if you have one guitar part which peaks at certain value, and the other is louder/quieter - so, maybe mix engineer didn't automate guitar levels, but rather used new track for every new part.

It easily could be that they did 72 tracks for some song, and that Vincent is not so familiar with audio engineering. So he saw all those tracks, asked mixing engineer 'how many tracks are there?', got the answer, and then went '72 different layers, fuck yeah'.

edit: fuck yeah, Void

[/quote]

I see, yes but I think automating would even be faster.

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:35

Maybe their mixing engineer works 'x amount of $$$ per track' and not per hour

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:35

I gotta remember that one!

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:46

[quote name="Uros"]Maybe their mixing engineer works 'x amount of $$$ per track' and not per hour

[/quote]

I like it, I like it

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 07 Jun 2011, 05:51

Every snare hit in a blast beat on a new track! KACHING!

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 07 Jun 2011, 08:05

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 09:28

his compressor threshold is actually a money meter

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 09:34

so his bank account is in the minus?

zim · Post by **zim** » 07 Jun 2011, 09:40

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 09:53

[quote name="Uros"]so his bank account is in the minus?

[/quote]

lol no whatever the value of the gain reduction is, that's how much gets deducted from the morbid angel piggy bank

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 09:59

but you did say threshold

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 10:28

yessir, as you lower the threshold you increase gain reduction

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 07 Jun 2011, 10:35

^^to do that you set threshold value at negative value, and that's what I meant

bob_here · Post by **bob_here** » 07 Jun 2011, 10:40

haha I know, I know what you meant and I was referring to the negative value as the amount being taken away

it was just a poorly communicated joke on my part, my sincere apologies

KevinP · Post by **KevinP** » 07 Jun 2011, 18:34

I myself have gone from liking the samples, then kinda not liking the full album, to now liking the full album. Sure, there are moments where I'm a little "put off" but even albums I love have those moments from time to time.

Normally I don't really over analyze an album all that much, I like what I like, that's it. But with all the fever and hate over this thing, I've put myself in the mindset of people who hyper scrutinize the lyrics, sound of the drums, etc, etc. I can understand some of those points, but at the end of the day it's not something that overly matters to me.

I'm guessing that the lyrics are simplified in the sense that it fits the style of this type of techno stuff. And maybe Trey has tired of Sumerian/whatever. That stuff never did much for me. I prefer more memorable lyrics of the old days. Call that dumbing it down for the lowest common denominator if you want, but I'm okay with it.

I do wish the overall production/sound had more of a "warmth" to it. Maybe it won't sound as "compressed" or "processed" once I hear the official release.

Do I love bands like Bolt Thrower and Autopsy who never really change? Yes.

Do I expect MA to change each album? Yes.

Did I expect this much change? No. But that's just my own biased perception on things.

Would I want this to be the full fledged future direction of the band? No.

Will I mind that they did 1 kinda 'weird for MA album' (assuming J and onward are again different and/orback to norrm)? No.

I won't say I'm GAGA or head-over-heels at the album. But there is plenty that I enjoy. Heck, even Mea Culpa sounds like the perfect fusion of weirdness while still being fruital and extreme. Too Extreme and Destructos drone on and on far too long.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 07 Jun 2011, 21:09

Are you starting your mensies?

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 07 Jun 2011, 21:38

Solo on beauty is good

Ninny · Post by **Ninny** » 09 Jun 2011, 23:05

The initial disappointment and embarrasment has gone, I can listen to this without skipping. In fact I´ve found myself skipping forward to I'm Morbid

And this was my most disliked track. I have no problem with the first four tracks at all, I think the start is pretty good. Then it goes a bit wobbly, I need a little more time place this part. I think MA had no shame while recording this one and you need to dump your own shame to be able to accept the result. It's refreshing, it doesn't have the hate that's on the other albums. It has some innocence to it, it's catchy and entertaining and a little silly