David Vincent bashing undeserved?

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 00:12

From a recent discussion on the MA board.

I know it could look like this album's the result of Vincent coming back, but Azagthoth is really the one who's obsessively talked about his love of 'extreme electronic music' for like a decade and a half now. Genitorturers just felt like a whatever thing for Vincent- I like them for what they are, but I've never seen him imply that he has a particular passion for that style. I don't think Vincent's egotistical, really- I've met him in real life and he was very humble and cool to me. Egotistical? Not really. Dumb? Yeah, he's pretty dumb. But still, I'm laying the blame for all this squarely on Azagthoth, the dude who's had a complete stranglehold on the band since 1998.

I love Azagthoth's music but I've always found him to be one of the more obnoxious and unlikeable characters in metal. Waaaay too many people give his long history of jackassery a pass. Seriously, he's had almost complete creative control of Morbid Angel since Formulas and I doubt he got in a much more collaborative mood when Vincent came back. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I want to see the individual songwriting credits. I bet there's going to be a LOT of Music: Trey Azagthoth on it.

People have that strange love affair with Trey Azagthoth that doesn't allow them to let any blame come on him, so whenever he fucks up the blame is shifted to someone else, often someone who didn't have jack shit to do with the songwriting.

Any thoughts?

LAVAGOD · Post by **LAVAGOD** » 30 May 2011, 00:23

vincent and trey deserve more respect than this bullshit! bottom line. the new album is gonna kick ass. theres no need to blame anyone for anything.

yeah trey has the most power in the band, but its also his band. if someone wants to do something differently they can start there own band! enough of this shit storm of bashing. trey and david are probably some of the most underrated musicians in all of music.

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 30 May 2011, 00:28

I agree 100% that it's pretty impossible that Trey hasn't gotten his hands dirty on this one, in fact, I'll go as far as saying that musically, he is fully 'to blame'.

Vincent is the responsible for lyrical content, that is as clear as day.

So, they are partners in crime, no doubt about that.

Problem with this record, is everything I don't like about MA D is a mayor part of it. On D there was 'lots of MA, with some stuff which I don't like', but I was able to tolerate them, as they were still in minority. But now is the other way around.

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 30 May 2011, 00:40

I think he IS blamed for the "new direction". Which in my opinion is wrong. I really think his return saved MA as a band. The musical direction is something in which Trey was always leading the band, though always giving enough freedom to the other members to chime in. Rutan, Tucker and now even Thor have (had) musical input.

The mocking of his stagewear is stupid also imo. Who cares if he wears a latex shirt. During the blessed days he wore a studded cod-piece. Brunelle had Handcuffs on his belt... And Trey wearing a net (!) shirt is okay by the same standards?

All the talking about what he wore/looked like in the Genitortures, which has nothing to do with MA is kinda pointless too. Totally different band, another genre and he would have looked out of place there with his old MA look.

About the critisism of him not doing the Tucker era songs, I honestly think that a lot of the songs would not fit his voice/way of singing. Some would sound awesome though. Nothing is not for instance.

In regard to his lyrics, I want to see the actual booklet, before any real comments, but there are a couple of things i've heard on the samples i have a

feeling of. (Knowing Treys fondness of Robotech/SciFi i guess he probaly loves Destructos.)

The only thing i do not enjoy that much of the current performances is the way he talks between songs. The fuck, fucking fuck etc.. and the forced shouting. The man has a really nice talking voice, which was for me alway very enjoyable to listen to. It also was a nice contrast with the agressiveness of the actual singing. It made them a little more sophisticated.

Still i think he is a great frontman.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 30 May 2011, 00:52

David Vincent Apologetics Unwarranted?

I like Trey more than David because David isn't the one who wrote the riffs and lyrics on my favorite MA albums. I think Dave is a dick and I don't like his voice, it's gone severely downhill since Domination. Tucker is a better vocalist and frontman in my opinion, and every other word that comes out of his mouth isn't "fuck" "satan" "evil" or "mosh".

If Trey wants to make music that sounds like and has the feeling of the Genitorturers, then that's his call, but to me that band is utter shit and to have Dave at the helm of it just makes it seem even more laughable to me. Going from something as ambitious as Heretic where Trey had total control and let the spirit of his creativity that I am familiar with shine and sliding down to Illud just seems lazy to me. If he wanted to do that, okay, but I am NOT going to automatically be respectful just because they are David or Trey.

Also, this is incredibly laughable coming from someone who seriously mentioned Vincent's "masculine sexual energy".

Uros · Post by **Uros** » 30 May 2011, 00:53

[quote name="uni777"]The man has a really nice talking voice, which was for me alway very enjoyable to listen to.[/quote]

Anyway, he is a killer frontmen. The fact that he is the frontman is the 1st reason why most of the people have singled him out in order to bash him. That is what you get if you are in the spotlights, just a part of the game.

When you speak about clothing - sure, by itself I don't care. I don't care the way he's dressing when going to a grocery store or whatever. But see, when he is on stage, that's a part of the whole picture. MA are an entity, not just bunch of stuff lumped together (they were anyway, imho).

You are right about the old days, they were looking like Manowar on some pics

But the music was good, so you don't mind. Now, it's shit so it just adds up.

Anyway, I wouldn't mind them dressed up even as fucking hippies, if they only would be able to put out decent record(s), which, for now, is not the case.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 00:56

[quote name="uni777"]I think he IS blamed for the "new direction". Which in my opinion is wrong. I really think his return saved MA as a band. The musical direction is something in which Trey was always leading the band, though always giving enough freedom to the other members to chime in. Rutan, Tucker and now even Thor have (had) musical input.

The mocking of his stagewear is stupid also imo. Who cares if he wears a latex shirt. During the blessed days he wore a studded cod-piece. Brunelle had Handcuffs on his belt... And Trey wearing a net (!) shirt is okay by the same standards?

All the talking about what he wore/looked like in the Genitortures, which has nothing to do with MA is kinda pointless too. Totally different band, another genre and he would have looked out of place there with his old MA look.

About the critisism of him not doing the Tucker era songs, I honestly think that a lot of the songs would not fit his voice/way of singing. Some would sound awesome though. Nothing is not for instance.

In regard to his lyrics, I want to see the actual booklet, before any real comments, but there are a couple of things i've heard on the samples i have a

feeling of. (Knowing Treys fondness of Robotech/SciFi i guess he probaly loves Destructos.)

The only thing i do not enjoy that much of the current performances is the way he talks between songs. The fuck, fucking fuck etc.. and the forced shouting. The man has a really nice talking voice, which was for me alway very enjoyable to listen to. It also was a nice contrast with the agressiveness of the actual singing. It made them a little more sophisticated.

Still i think he is a great frontman.[/quote]

Hallucinating dead · Post by **Hallucinating dead** » 30 May 2011, 01:19

As mr. wheretheslime posted the terrorizer interview with Trey, he admitted he likes this music, he found the same energy in it.

and may he also wanted to tell people that metal is not some superior genre, there others things too. There are some pizza burgers who listen to metal just because it has the superiority attitude. If he likes some other genre people should respect it. Its the same hard-on bearer who gave you those great METAL albums, now if we wants to go in some other direction you should atleast respect him, forgetting you dont like that kind of music. He played metal because he loved it, he doing this for same.

He wrote Music, some part of it i liked as heaven while some not. I totally respect him for that

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 01:24

No doubt that Trey has a wish to open people's minds, but all the tracks on Illud are VERY Metal. It's definitely a Morbid Angel [Metal] take on Hardcore Techno etc. and not just a bunch of electronic tracks with a couple of leads. There's guitar riffs from beginning to end.

pedigreejoey · Post by **pedigreejoey** » 30 May 2011, 03:33

[quote name="themicrulah"]David Vincent Apologetics Unwarranted?

I think Dave is a dick and I don't like his voice, it's gone severely downhill since Domination. Tucker is a better vocalist and frontman in my opinion.[/quote]

Erm..... excuse me if I'm missing something here - But didn't you just ENTIRELY contradict yourself there?

**Rolls eyes**

Tcchh - I ask you......!

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 30 May 2011, 03:35

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 30 May 2011, 03:40

who cares whose fault it is, the album is going to divide opinion (in a bad way) and sandoval is probably the smart one for staying out of it.

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 30 May 2011, 03:55

The album probably needs to be listened to several times to let it sink in, then, a fair opinion is possible.

Morbid Angel deserves that effort.

As Uni777 stated rightly: David Vincent saved the band from getting dormant/disbanded. I have revealed this several months ago already.

It's my opinion though, that Pete needs to rejoin the band asap to take it back -or as close as possible- to the creative level it used to have.

Bottom line:

It's this album or no album at all. Count your blessings.

Tea · Post by **Tea** » 30 May 2011, 04:01

Did Pete really have that much musical control over the band though?

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 04:06

[quote name="Flittermice"]Did Pete really have that much musical control over the band though?[/quote]

Not according to the information out there...

[quote name="Mutilator"]David Vincent saved the band from getting dormant/disbanded. I have revealed this several months ago already.[/quote]

Revealed?

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 30 May 2011, 04:08

[quote name="Flittermice"]Did Pete really have that much musical control over the band though?[/quote]

Probably not but I would imagine he had a more reasoned opinion than Trey and Dave and steered them away from going too far down the wrong path.

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 30 May 2011, 04:09

[quote name="Flittermice"]Did Pete really have that much musical control over the band though?[/quote]

Pete had become the backbone that Trey thrived upon. Pete is also a much stronger personality then Trey. Do you think that Pete would let himself be dictated to not use his drumbeats but play techno beats like that instead?

He also wrote Stricken arise and handed it over to Trey to fill in the guitar parts. This is a creative process that can be duplicated many more times imo.

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 30 May 2011, 04:17

I'd rather there be no Illud and a different record ten years from now than what we have now.

deckard · Post by **deckard** » 30 May 2011, 04:18

[quote name="themicrulah"]I'd rather there be no Illud and a different record ten years from now than what we have now.

[/quote]

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 30 May 2011, 04:21

[quote name="WhereTheSlimeLives"]
[quote name="Flittermice"]Did Pete really have that much musical control over the band though?[/quote]

Not according to the information out there...

[quote name="Mutilator"]David Vincent saved the band from getting dormant/disbanded. I have revealed this several months ago already.[/quote]

Revealed?[/quote]

Yes, it's not speculation. I trust my inside source 100%.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 04:25

[quote name="Mutilator"]Pete had become the backbone that Trey thrived upon. Pete is also a much stronger personality then Trey. Do you think that Pete would let himself be dictated to not use his drumbeats but play techno beats like that instead? [/quote]

Isn't that pure speculation?

[quote name="Mutilator"]Yes, it's not speculation. I trust my inside source 100%.[/quote]

What exactly did your inside source tell you?

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 30 May 2011, 04:32

Pete had become the backbone that Trey thrived upon. Pete is also a much stronger personality then Trey. Do you think that Pete would let himself be dictated to not use his drumbeats but play techno beats like that instead?

Isn't that pure speculation?

The question is speculation: the statements are definately not.

Yes, it's not speculation. I trust my inside source 100%.

What exactly did your inside source tell you?

The statements I already made on this board. David Vincent saved the band.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 04:35

Yeah but could you provide me with a link? I would like to read that information.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 30 May 2011, 04:39

I think I know who your source of information is, Mutilator

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 04:42

The statements I already made on this board. David Vincent saved the band.

You mean this?

Trey used to be the hard-on bearer that didn't attend parties and was practically glued to the guitar. Because of his former girlfriend, he did an 180 and partied with lots of drugs; that's probably the reason why he looks so washed up nowadays and the reason he only had material for 3 songs: he just wasn't interested in playing / composing on his guitar anymore and if one doesn't keep practicing, high level playing can't be maintained, only the stuff that comes automatically because of years of playing; the same goes for the old stuff nowadays Metallica plays; they can't compose it anymore, only be a coverband of themselves.

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 04:43

[quote name="Void"]I think I know who your source of information is, Mutilator

[/quote]

And who would that be?

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 30 May 2011, 04:45

[quote name="themicrulah"]I think Dave is a dick and I don't like his voice, it's gone severely downhill since Domination. Tucker is a better vocalist and frontman in my opinion, and every other word that comes out of his mouth isn't "fuck" "satan" "evil" or "mosh".[/quote]

boom. give the kid a stuffed animal

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 30 May 2011, 04:49

I prefer owls, I have an owl collection.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 30 May 2011, 04:50

then an owl you shall receive

^_____________^ · Post by **^_____________^** » 30 May 2011, 04:53

God of Perverse · Post by **God of Perverse** » 30 May 2011, 05:12

I don't think David Vincent has chosen the musical line, since the main composer is Trey.

Anyway, also DV likes electronic music, industrial etc.

WhereTheSlimeLives, do you know who has composed Radikult? It would seem more in David Vincent style...

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 05:35

I don't think David Vincent has chosen the musical line, since the main composer is Trey.

Anyway, also DV likes electronic music, industrial etc.

WhereTheSlimeLives, do you know who has composed Radikult? It would seem more in David Vincent style...

This is what David told me when I interviewed him:

It's rather unusual that a bunch of people in a Death Metal band would agree on adding electronic influences to their sound. How did that come about?

I have been a fan of bands like Laibach ever since the early 80's. When I first heard them. I thought that was really cool. I'll tell you when Trey first came in with these demo ideas and said “I've been listening to these things and I feel inspired and I've done this.” and asked me what I thought about it. I simply heard it and said “absolutely fucking yes! We're gonna find a way to do this” because I thought it was really cool and really unique. I just embraced it. I didn't expect that to come from him. We hadn't talked about it and he just came in with it one day. I was really excited about it and I'm still really excited about it. Because it's adding one more really unique dimension to a band that's already... You know at this point I don't even know how to define us other than saying it's just Morbid Angel.

God of Perverse · Post by **God of Perverse** » 30 May 2011, 06:07

Interesting testimony, thank you.

Olden Polynice · Post by **Olden Polynice** » 30 May 2011, 07:34

I did see a comment left on a blog that said "I WANT TO FUCKING KILL DAVID VINCENT".There's probly a couple morons out there thinking about making him the next Dime Bag.

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 May 2011, 09:27

[quote name="DustyVagina"]I did see a comment left on a blog that said "I WANT TO FUCKING KILL DAVID VINCENT".There's probly a couple morons out there thinking about making him the next Dime Bag.

[/quote]

That is not a pleasant thought.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 30 May 2011, 11:36

NO KILLING FOR SHITTY MUSIC

join the military

Mutilator · Post by **Mutilator** » 30 May 2011, 13:23

[quote name="WhereTheSlimeLives"]Yeah but could you provide me with a link? I would like to read that information.[/quote]

I understand but it's about the same info. It's in some old thread that was active during or before the recording period. Looking for it would become too time-consuming atm.

[quote name="Void"]I think I know who your source of information is, Mutilator

[/quote]

Yes, I think you do Void, I respect another person's privacy so I don't want to mention any names on the internet, but somewhere on the line I picked up that you've at least must've met (at a MA gig I guess).

Have you spoken to her lately by chance? For me it's been awhile..

RitesOfPossession · Post by **RitesOfPossession** » 30 May 2011, 15:51

As long as Trey stays true to his artistic vision of thinking and making music for himself then I can still respect him. I may no longer enjoy the music he makes, in the case of Illud I probably wont, but I can still respect him for the music he has made in the past and for being a true artist.

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 30 May 2011, 17:53

[quote name="KARMALAME"]I did see a comment left on a blog that said "I WANT TO FUCKING KILL DAVID VINCENT".There's probly a couple morons out there thinking about making him the next Dime Bag.

[/quote]

GTFO!

Those Insane Gods · Post by **Those Insane Gods** » 30 May 2011, 18:11

There's close to no chance that something like that would ever happen.

Uni777 · Post by **Uni777** » 30 May 2011, 18:40

Lets hope not. There are plenty of idiots out there....

vO)))id · Post by **vO)))id** » 30 May 2011, 18:42

Don't you folks know not to pay attention to anything Karmablade says?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 May 2011, 20:08

I always suspected DustyVagina was a joke account. Now I know it.

agony bagony · Post by **agony bagony** » 30 May 2011, 20:13

mr. ip check says it isnt

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 May 2011, 20:30

I suspected it was you.

Who oh who could it beeeEEEeeee

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 30 May 2011, 20:31

Who is carpet salesman?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 May 2011, 21:16

Imran

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 30 May 2011, 21:28

Who is imran?

Abzu · Post by **Abzu** » 30 May 2011, 21:33

carpet_salesman

Verbal · Post by **Verbal** » 30 May 2011, 21:34

what if everyone other than you is just some dude you know thats fucking with you