This poster..

[zim]

is complete crap!



"Godfathers of Black Metal" - are you fucking kidding me?





<!-- m -->http://cgi.ebay.com/MORBID-ANGEL-NEW-PO ... 3cabaa0f72<!-- m -->

[Verbal]

why does it bother you so much?

[zim]

because it refers to morbid angel as black metal

[Verbal]

arent people entitled to believe whatever they want? why are you being so smug, arrogant and offensive?

[Abzu]

Actually, it calls them the godfathers of black metal, not black metal itself. While it's not wholly accurate, the first Norwegian wave had a formative, significant moment at a Morbid Angel concert in Oslo. I would presume, on reading the poster, it is some reference to that.

[Abzu]

Yeah, or that.

[jawn galliano]

well, MA were one of the handful of bands that were around during the formative period when DM/BM were coming into their own. i don't think that label is entirely honest, but it's worth considering the lines of demarcation weren't very strict when they were starting out. if i'm not mistaken, they did give some kind of mention to the black metal 'scene' in the liner notes for altars. the connection is kinda tenuous, for sure, but it exists. it's my impression that metal subgenres didn't really become self-conscious 'til the early 90's, so taking that into account, i don't think claims like these are that far out of line.



also consider that this poster was produced before metal had any real presence on the internet, before people actually cared much about this kind of debate. not to say that the debate is necessarily worthless, but it's context, which surely counts for something.



on a more personal note: considering this is a zim thread, the urge to make a necrophagist comment here is fucking INCREDIBLE, but i'm gonna resist. i'm trying to behave.

[vO)))id]

whatever, it should have said "Death Metal", period.

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

It should have said "The grandmothers of Crossover Thrash Metal"

[Jordan]

What a bunch of shit.

[Abzu]

[quote name="Skintoxication"]
[quote name="hard-on bearer Incognito"] it's my impression that metal subgenres didn't really become self-conscious 'til the early 90's, so taking that into account, i don't think claims like these are that far out of line.



also consider that this poster was produced before metal had any real presence on the internet, before people actually cared much about this kind of debate. not to say that the debate is necessarily worthless, but it's context, which surely counts for something.[/quote]





considering this is the formulas artwork, which means it probably came out around '98ish, and by that time there were plenty of internet warriors bitching about genre. also, take into account that in '98 the black metal "sound" had been more than defined. whoever decided that the text in question was necessary to put on the poster obviously wasnt paying any sort of attention to the metal scene at all an needs to refrain from making such claims.



as far as the reference to black metal in the altars liner notes, that was made when venom was considered a "black" metal band and i guess they sort of shared similarities, so i can see how they wouldve just kind of thrown that in. but by blessed/covenant and beyond, they were most certainly a death metal band.[/quote]

Well put, Sir ForeSkin

[Uni777]

The whole Formula's promo campaign had the "Godfathers of Black Metal" header.

And to be quite honest.. When the Thy kingdom Come demo was released (87) it often was reviewed amongst, or in, the blackmetal sections of fanzines. Back then the division and definitions of all the (more darker/evil) metal genres was just taking form.

I think earache did it to capitalize on the little darker/occult direction of the album compared to "D". And tried to appeal to the Blackmetal crowd.

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

I came across a interview with Trey where he's like "This is album is more aggressive, like a black metal album" or something like that. He refers the album to black metal in some way.

[xpocalypse]

metal + devil = black metal



imo not some winter/forest/troll/ogre/wizard/mountain shit, MA can be referred to as black metal whatever

[Verbal]

debating what genre a piece of music is is ridiculous

[Cybermetatron]

I've also seen this in its context. But it didn'd really offend me. I just think that it's because when formulas came out, black metal was the most successful extreme kind of metal.



Death metal had its peak in the beginning of the 90's and then it fell in 93-94, and we've seen a lot of bands changing their death-metal style mixing it with (or completely abandoning it for) other influences, doing crap or just falling into oblivion. But bands like MA went on doing true death-metal. At the same time, black metal raised and became more successful than death-metal. So, when formulas came out, earache decided to remind kids of the past, that what they were considering as the ultimate form of extreme metal (black metal in 98), was actually the consequence of the fall of death-metal, and was very influenced by DM bands inspired by occult stuff and satanism. It's just marketing, and distorting reality to interest more kids. It's like saying “hey kids, you're worshiping black metal because it's extreme and evil, but it's not something really new, death metal had the same impact 10 years ago !!”. I've also seen this “godfather of black metal” for Deicide, don't remember where nor when (maybe for an album also released by earache ?!).

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

[quote name="Verbal"]debating what genre a piece of music is is ridiculous[/quote]



This. To quote Trey himself "It's just titles".

[Abzu]

[quote name="Maze"]
[quote name="Verbal"]debating what genre a piece of music is is ridiculous[/quote]



This. To quote Trey himself "It's just titles".[/quote]

...and I agree with him. Bruce Lee felt the same about martial arts styles and their names. Trey = Bruce Lee of metal.

[Verbal]

..didnt bruce lee come up with his own martial art? and a name for it? jkd?

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

[quote name="desolation"]
[quote name="Maze"]
[quote name="Verbal"]debating what genre a piece of music is is ridiculous[/quote]



This. To quote Trey himself "It's just titles".[/quote]

...and I agree with him. Bruce Lee felt the same about martial arts styles and their names. Trey = Bruce Lee of metal.[/quote]



haha really? cool.



I'm a big fan of Bruce Lee Way of the Dragon

[Abzu]

[quote name="Verbal"]..didnt bruce lee come up with his own martial art? and a name for it? jkd?[/quote]

That he did. He also said you can call Jeet Kune Do whatever you want or nothing at all, because it is just a name and nothing more. The style he developed was a mix of many styles... or rather a stripping of style from the fighting art itself to focus on the principle: Accomplish as much as possible with as little expenditure of energy as possible.

[Cybermetatron]

I agree, debating around titles is useless. But they exist, and I think they can help in a way to understand how music is evolving...

[Lieutenant Ripley]

Trey = Bruce Lee of metal.

=A BADASS

[Goddess of Chaos]

`

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

[quote name="Goddess of Chaos"]HAHA!! I've got a signed one in my closet. Yeah, visually kind of weird. I'll like Altars best.[/quote]



Did you hang out with Morbid Angel back in the days?

[Goddess of Chaos]

`

[FUKKET]

yeah, the dude has no idea...



this is black metal!!

[Anjel]

In before Suffocation.

[vO)))id]