[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]
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[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]
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[quote name="TheRulerOfTheMicrophoneThe"]I'd still rather just listen to Marilyn Manson than some half-assed copy from the band that wrote Formulas Fatal to the Flesh.[/quote]
I think Dave is a terrible vocalist/lyricist and I think his descent into shittery started on Domination. I like some songs on that album mainly for the guitar riffs, pretty much just Where the Slime Live, that one has the best lyrics on the record too although they are very different. Previous MA records were about acquiring strength through self knowledge and occult understanding whilst Dominate was about weak human aspirations towards obviously, physical or whatever domination. It's what Nietzsche called the will to power and what he despised. This sort of caveman approach to existence is especially manifest in Illud, I don't quite think I'll have to spell that out. It's not Morbid Angel, and that's what TranscendingMusic has been elaborating on in his posts.
Like I said, I like Marilyn Manson, and that's mainly because I think he is a
far more intelligent and interesting person than David, and also his music is more diverse than that which is found on the Golden Age of Grotesque, the album that Illud has the most in common with. My favorite Manson song comes off of Eat Me, Drink Me actually and it is called If I Was Your Vampire.
Illud pails in comparison to Heretic for me because I feel Trey is [or at least used to be] a far more interesting person than David and I'm much more interested than his ideas. [I heard Dave use the word "paganistic" in an interview once as an adjective and that's not even a word
] Trey had complete creative control over that record and the MA I know really shined on that album. It's just incredible, and I love the weird production. Too many bands these days strive to have the same production, I like an organic sound and a unique feel to my albums.[/quote]
Hi..?..sorry I never caught your name acually...?
I know you have the similiar sentiment towards Illud but allow me to please clear a few things up.
The first thing is about Nietzsche. The Will To Power is the basis of all of Nietzsche's writings. It's what ties everything together in every idea he conveys whether they be aphorisms (which I am a big
fan of and a writer of myself incidentally) or long dissertations in his books. His final outlook was that mankind must embrace The Will To Power for it's everything; it's the inner event; it's you; it's life; it's life as necessity by virtue of being, etc. How people interpret how to approach this concept is their own prerogative. But don't be mistaken about that Nietzsche definitely did not despise this concept it was his brainchild and beacon to his entire philosophy.
The second thing is that I do support the Domination album. Domination can't be compared to Illud however. Domination illustrates human will and struggle in a more earthly, secular way. All of the ideas of dominating pertain to understanding the less taken path but also possessing a foresight that the flock would lack. Rather than imagery and ritualistic hymns, Domination focuses on being cerebral and thought provoking at face value. I see Domination as the memoir of a philosophical and ominous figure naturally having progressed from embracing literal occult beliefs into understanding them as power words and ideologies of self-empowerment. So ironically the concept is invoked that although this album is closer to "earth" in some psychedelic way, it still contains something removed from the every day banality. I think that's why I respect it so much because you are creating "other-worldliness" but through demonstrating that it doesn't exist! I mean, that's so brilliant and so meaningful. He may refer to carnality and earthly triumph but far removed from what would be common-place in reality. So whether or not one believes in something beyond "this life" or not, Domination accounts for the fact that if you were proven wrong about your beliefs life can still be an ethereal work of art even through being "realistic". Dudes, that's genius. And how much more creativity like that could have been accomplished with "I"! What a shame!
What we get with Illud are just words; empty egotistical words. If actions back up words, well the music we can consider to be the action on an album and even by that measure the music and the its atmosphere are no where near Domination; don't even sit in the same ballpark. Illud is a shadow of the consequence of self empowerment not the offset of it! That's the big difference. One can demonstrate creativity and power through the creation for the creation to speak for itself, not the other way around patting yourself on the back.[/quote]
The Will to Power is a book that was composed by Nietzsche's anti-semitic sister after he died from his unfinished writings and letters, and he had a falling out with her while he was still alive because she married a Nazi and that book isn't a reliable source for anything. Nietzsche identified the master and slave moralities in his works and detested both of them, he introduced the idea of perspectivism, which is the idea that there are multiple paths to good in the world and that morality is not the basis of it. He despised religion and he despised morality equally, and in his idea of the overman he said that in time humans will soon transcend the constructs of good, evil, master, slave that they have placed on themselves and simply live to live. In other words, the doctrine of might makes right is not something Nietzsche supported and is something tacked on by posthumous editors. What we call morality will one day become something we don't even have to think about, in other words. There is a passage in one of his books, I can't remember which one, where he talks about a situation where a man was falling down as he passed him in the street and without thinking Nietzsche helped him up, and I think that illustrates these ideas handsomely.
I can understand your views in regards to Domination, and yes I do agree it is far superior to Illud; I'm merely suggesting that the trip towards the blatant emptiness of Illud can be traced back to that record. Even Trey admitted when Formulas was released that David was taking the band down a path that he didn't like, and the interview on YouTube with Trey in his backyard shows him discussing this explicitly.
By the way, I'm themicrulah. I just changed my name during name change week and let it stick
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Damn you guys and the name changing!
Wow, the ideas about Nietzsche are definitely vast and I think he made his case in point about the Will To Power as the inner event and will by the multiplicities of interpretations of his work we have to this day.
First I can assure you that the actual book was not "corrupted" by his sister. It's meaning was misconstrued by her however and eventually those ambiguous meanings came to be known to the Reich. With Nietzsche there was a dichotomy that one must understand. Nietzsche's concepts of "being good" were conveyed by his idea of unadulterated being. So that if one is "being good" for example towards another tat it is their virtue to be so not because it is morally right as validated by an external religion or decree. Conversely, he still held strength and power in high esteem. I'm actually not sure why some think he didn't. He even illustrates many times about what is actually "good" would be deemed evil by the weak. And what is bad is really a quality call of the weak by the stronger. In this dichotomy Nietzsche found refuge in the thought of transcendence of the deceit in reality so that ultimately reality is looked upon for what it is: that there being stronger types and weaker types. The strong, in his opinion, usually didn't propagate lies about reality; they didn't create escapism. OR there was a strong type that used escapism to reinforce itself; that external rules were merely a means to serve themselves. What he is demonstrating is that if we were to live in a world of lies, the stronger is superior for they convey something truthful about what is real. But if we were to live in a truthful world perhaps The Will To Power would redirect itself to personal growth. But this dichotomy he would grow suspicious of eventually! Another Utopian dream? Another ideal? He would want to do away with it. I've seen and actually have Nietzsche's personal letters. I've acquired these things in my 2nd year of college when I befriended a professor who was also a Nietzsche aficionado. He had some amazing documents, letters, memoirs that blew my mind: talking rare stuff here. I can say with confidence that The Will To Power is indeed Nietzsche's work but inherently his most fragmented, unsystematic work which makes it difficult for many to follow. Ostensibly, logically, aside from anecdotal and written evidence of his bodies of work, had his sister put her spin on that book it would be much easier to follow and much more systematic revolving around her anti-Semitic ideas. But they aren't. He also said that his writings are one thing and himself something else. That resonated with me because in his personal letters he is very much a sensitive hard-on bearer who expresses temperamental thoughts and laments about missing certain people, this and that. In his books though, as a truth monger, he only gives his account on truthfulness which is why his work comes across as fruital at times. Again in a world of lies, power and The Will To Power - although two different things - are reality to Nietzsche and he acknowledges it and lauds the stronger, noble types. In a world that transcends morality as any other lies, even if one were to postulate a transcendent world of these fictions and lies, power would still be the focus ultimately manifested as transcendence. Domination of lies still goes hand in hand with the concepts of "master" just as much as outward domination. He would in a sense see the nobility in both. He'd refer to an over-man as one who masters truthfulness of life in contrast to the accepted lies. But make no mistake, it's The Will To Power that this over-man would then live by. This would include any honest propensities to "benevolence" as well as any honest inclinations to cruelty or a discharge of will and power. As two different things, yet related, Will To Power and one exercising their power most definitely still relate. he is not denouncing power in and of itself at all but denouncing the admonishing of man's will by external scripture as some divine law or rule: he is stressing the freedom of the will (not free will). The master/slave morality you should read more about though in Beyond Good And Evil. I think that Nietzsche is often used as a sheepdog or this unsung hero for the modernly despaired. Perhaps they get an overall sense of subversion and interprete his iconoclastic vibe as something they can defend their begrudged lives with. Nietzsche would most likely have laughed about this: ironically representatives of the masses sort of use him as a voice of humanity by virtue of re-interpretation of the Will To Power. But Nietzsche shows disdain in his work against Egalitarianism, utilitarianism, and any protective umbrella of the weak and "the herd" as he'd call them. There is nothing 'soft' in his work or for the temperamental. The way he lived and what he ironically idealized were different at the end of the day but I don't think he could obviously escape what he thought to be 'truth' as compared to what was held to be true commonly.[/quote]
I was speaking of the Will to Power as the explanation Nietzsche presented for wars and atrocities in contrast to the will to live presented by other philosophers, but I understand where you're coming from now. I can't fucking believe you have some of his personal letters, haha
[even if they're in a book that's still fucking awesome] and I will, I was reading a lot of NIetzsche a couple weeks ago then I took a break and moved on to some other stuff for a little while.
[quote name="pulsar"]I bet you are thinking I will pick on you for this.[/quote]
