The Problem With IDI

[Abzu]

I've been thinking about why Illud is the way it is. I think it boils down to three factors: failed experiment, David Vincent, silliness.



I think Trey was genuinely experimenting and that experiment did not result as well as it maybe could have. I know that when I first heard it would have electronic elements and he was experimenting with those sounds, I became very excited. I thought that he would do seriously innovative and amazing things that would take me to other states of mind. This was just not the result, though. Many of his experiments were pure win; this one wasn't. I don't have less respect for him over it, though. Trial and error, man. Trey's now batting .875, a respectable batting average.



I am certain that David is a significant part of the reason it didn't come out better. Sure, maybe he stepped in and saved the band from crumbling in on itself, but all that time in Genitorturers molded a different David Vincent than the one before. I Am Morbid and Radikult, the two worst songs, were him. They are very much like Genitorturers. I shouldn't even have to mention how crappy his lyrics are these days, both on their own and especially compared to his A-D run. This was a sub par, mediocre performance and that is just not acceptable on a Morbid Angel record. Between this mess and his salesman like attitude in interviews (old era Vincent was interesting in interviews) these days, I'm not a fan of modern David Vincent at all. I respect what he did in the past, but I am not so sure I respect him at all.



The other reason the album was less affective, I feel, is partly due to Trey letting his silliness out more than usual. It used to be more subtle in the songwriting (Robotech inspired riff behind Where The Slime Live lava, ending Heretic stuff, etc.) but here was much more loosed. Perhaps Pete was a partial curb on it, buffering it to a reasonable level. The overall atmosphere of the album seems to have lent to that. Look at Destructos. It isn't shit but it is silly. It feels like an old sci fi movie and like Robotech. Everything Trey has written in the past has felt like the subject matter, if that makes sense, and this is the same, in that respect. It was a silly song concept and it resulted in a silly song that feels out of place in the Morbid Angel canon.



I think that these three elements have resulted in a Morbid Angel album that is very much lacking a core thread that has been consistent through every other album they've released, no matter how different each is. What we've been given is a very different Morbid Angel, the result of a drastically shifted dynamic within the band. I'm not going to jump ship, but I'm not going to pretend this was a success. Being I love their music so much, I am trying to understand why, though.

[^_____________^]

It's not the style change that's the problem, it's that it was executed in such a pathetically poor way that is devoid of any feeling whatsoever.



I love the electronic tracks on FFttF and Desolate Ways on Blessed. I'm not closed to experimentation, I just like it to be executed in a way that isn't total shit and doesn't sound exactly like something that has already been done over a decade ago.

[FUKKET]

[quote name=";,,;"]I've been thinking about why Illud is the way it is. I think it boils down to three factors: failed experiment, David Vincent, silliness.



I think Trey was genuinely experimenting and that experiment did not result as well as it maybe could have. I know that when I first heard it would have electronic elements and he was experimenting with those sounds, I became very excited. I thought that he would do seriously innovative and amazing things that would take me to other states of mind. This was just not the result, though. Many of his experiments were pure win; this one wasn't. I don't have less respect for him over it, though. Trial and error, man. Trey's now batting .875, a respectable batting average.



I am certain that David is a significant part of the reason it didn't come out better. Sure, maybe he stepped in and saved the band from crumbling in on itself, but all that time in Genitorturers molded a different David Vincent than the one before. I Am Morbid and Radikult, the two worst songs, were him. They are very much like Genitorturers. I shouldn't even have to mention how crappy his lyrics are these days, both on their own and especially compared to his A-D run. This was a sub par, mediocre performance and that is just not acceptable on a Morbid Angel record. Between this mess and his salesman like attitude in interviews (old era Vincent was interesting in interviews) these days, I'm not a fan of modern David Vincent at all. I respect what he did in the past, but I am not so sure I respect him at all.



The other reason the album was less affective, I feel, is partly due to Trey letting his silliness out more than usual. It used to be more subtle in the songwriting (Robotech inspired riff behind Where The Slime Live lava, ending Heretic stuff, etc.) but here was much more loosed. Perhaps Pete was a partial curb on it, buffering it to a reasonable level. The overall atmosphere of the album seems to have lent to that. Look at Destructos. It isn't shit but it is silly. It feels like an old sci fi movie and like Robotech. Everything Trey has written in the past has felt like the subject matter, if that makes sense, and this is the same, in that respect. It was a silly song concept and it resulted in a silly song that feels out of place in the Morbid Angel canon.



I think that these three elements have resulted in a Morbid Angel album that is very much lacking a core thread that has been consistent through every other album they've released, no matter how different each is. What we've been given is a very different Morbid Angel, the result of a drastically shifted dynamic within the band. I'm not going to jump ship, but I'm not going to pretend this was a success. Being I love their music so much, I am trying to understand why, though.[/quote]



yes.

this.



Samael, SYL, Nocturnus and countless other bands have added electronic elements and have worked better than MA did... but yeah, i think the weakest link on I is Mr V.

[FUKKET]

[quote name="^_____________^"]



It's not the style change that's the problem, it's that it was executed in such a pathetically poor way that is devoid of any feeling whatsoever.

I'm not closed to experimentation, I just like it to be executed in a way that isn't total shit and doesn't sound exactly like something that has already been done over a decade ago.[/quote]

[Mesarthim]

pretty much, this.

[agony bagony]

i agree with basically everything in the first post and especially the david vincent paragraph. i just do not understand how anyone can take him seriously. he looks like he wants to be twenty years younger and his lyrics are ABSURD. they are the worst kind of posturing, self-indulgent nonsense. i've sat next to frat boys on the bus home who have more intelligent and insightful things to say. it feels like trey either stopped caring or cares so much about channeling energy/tapping into blah blah blah that he's overlooked the bigger picture, which is idi is a misguided mess that bears little resemblance to morbid angel or any quality music written after 1998

[Abzu]

Yep. I'm really hoping for a true-to-form, good J album. Then his batting average will be .889 (.8~, but batting averages round at the thousandth).

[shubniggurath]

David Vincent died around 1997 or so. Evil D lives.



Trey has forgotten the face of his father.



You're right...before Trey expressed everything he wanted to express, but (as Bob would probably put it) within the Morbid Angel infrastructure. Everything from the sci fi stuff, to his desire for music that "makes the hips swing" (Gateways with all its groove) etc. But he did it in such a way that it was still Morbid Angel. Now, he doesn't worry about that part of it. And Illud is what happens. Clearly he used to be the gatekeeper. When he did Formulas as a three piece, he said he didn't need anyone else to write with him, he knew what Morbid Angel sounds like. Now he let a goth douchebag write lyrics. I seriously wonder if he was OK with it, or if it was more "we need Evil D now, so I guess he gets to write lyrics." I think overall he doesn't care about whether his shit sounds like Morbid Angel or not; I think he's in that mindframe of "whatever I choose to do, it's Morbid Angel." And he's right, from his own frame of reference. But from any other perspective, it's really fucked up and disappointing. It's his right to make a fucking samba album and call it Morbid Angel if he wants to, and it's our right not to buy their shit if it sucks.



Trey has forgotten the face of his father.



Paraphrasing his Blessed are the Sick liner notes, "These are a list of things I love very MUCK:"

-Disco beats on a MA album

-I Was Morbid

-Radikult

-Thinking that just because HE did something for the first time, that makes it original and/or extreme. It doesn't. it just makes it new and exciting to HIM.

[RitesOfPossession]

I agree with everyone on this thread pretty much.



[quote name="slimegod"]When he did Formulas as a three piece, he said he didn't need anyone else to write with him, he knew what Morbid Angel sounds like.[/quote]

This is an important point, especially with all the talk of the Morbid Angel infrastructure. Its not just been about the fans knowing what to expect of Morbid Angel its been that Trey has known exactly what Morbid Angel has meant to be. That's why Vincent left in the first place - because he didn't fit in with Trey's concept of what the band was. With Illud I feel they've left the concept of what Morbid Angel should be completely behind.

[Zhongma]

Very good original post.



Especially the part about Vincent.



What I would have liked to see on this album, was some contribution by Pete. If no drums, then an instrumental or some lyrics would have been nice. Get him in the picture somehow.



Some of the stuff on I is dissapointing, and after many listens I'm not much excited about this release.

[Uros]

I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel

[Zhongma]

There is some good stuff on I as well. I got got some salvage value I think.

[^_____________^]

[quote name="Uros"]I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel [/quote]

[agony bagony]

[quote name="Uros"]I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel [/quote]



ok – seriously? if this is really what you believe then you need to get yourself a cattle bell and hang it around your neck

[vO)))id]

[quote name="evil poop"]
[quote name="Uros"]I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel [/quote]



ok – seriously? if this is really what you believe then you need to get yourself a cattle bell and hang it around your neck[/quote]



dusto, you should've read more what Uros said in these threads. He's kidding

[Uros]

[quote name="evil poop"]
[quote name="Uros"]I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel [/quote]



ok – seriously? if this is really what you believe then you need to get yourself a cattle bell and hang it around your neck[/quote]

this only goes to show how far are you removed from Morbid Angel way

[agony bagony]

morbid angel has never been one of my favorite favorite bands and i have no problem calling it when one of my favorite favorite bands has put out a bizarre, incoherent train wreck of an album



*looks at metallica*



i would say it's ironic that you think there's a "morbid angel way" and that we have no right to talk shit about illud, which is so clearly NOT A MORBID ANGEL RECORD that it would seem to have damaged the morbid angel name and way. except that isn't ironic; it's completely expected and really dumb. so for you i have a



if you are so wrapped up in morbid angel worship that the only way you can react to the stream of largely sensible and spot-on and often hilarious idi comments on this board is to say "its so disappointing, to see this disrespect," then i would suggest you are perhaps too far gone in your worship to recognize when something is not really worth worshiping at all

[vO)))id]

DUSTO!

HE WAS KIDDING!

[Uros]

[quote name="evil poop"]morbid angel has never been one of my favorite favorite bands and i have no problem calling it when one of my favorite favorite bands has put out a bizarre, incoherent train wreck of an album



*looks at metallica*



i would say it's ironic that you think there's a "morbid angel way" and that we have no right to talk shit about illud, which is so clearly NOT A MORBID ANGEL RECORD that it would seem to have damaged the morbid angel name and way. except that isn't ironic; it's completely expected and really dumb. so for you i have a



if you are so wrapped up in morbid angel worship that the only way you can react to the stream of largely sensible and spot-on and often hilarious idi comments on this board is to say "its so disappointing, to see this disrespect," then i would suggest you are perhaps too far gone in your worship to recognize when something is not really worth worshiping at all



[/quote]

yada yada yada...you are all traitors and should be treated as such.

[vO)))id]

right?

[agony bagony]

well then i direct my comments to that ganjamar hard-on bearer or whatever his name is. he is irritating with his phallus-worship

[Uros]

I am still able to stir some shit up

[agony bagony]

[Gmajnar]

some are getting lost in this Maze Of MABB

[Tea]

Along with everything the OP said I'm gonna say I really think Dave is the defining factor in making such a crap album. I believe he is the biggest antagonist here. One can clearly see he's really not in "true" spirit of MA. I mean when you compare, how he looked, the interviews he gave and the lyrics he wrote in the gloryhole era , especially the Covenant era, he was a way more serious hard-on bearer. I don't think he rejoined MA because he loves death metal and writing about the occult, I think he re-joined because "Yeah! Gigs! Playing live music! Being cool! Evil! Fun!". I don't even need to THINK that, I know it. All it takes is a simple look at his new lyrics and image and the answer is there.



And of course, I'm not saying you have to be hardcore serious and dark to play death metal, I mean Cannibal Corpse have admitted they just play for fun because it's like the music equivalent of a horror film, but when you start taking the piss, looking like an idiot and alienating an entire fanbase, that's when the fun side of things have seeped a bit too far into the music!

[bob_here]

Along with everything the OP said I'm gonna say I really think Dave is the defining factor in making such a crap album. I believe he is the biggest antagonist here. One can clearly see he's really not in "true" spirit of MA. I mean when you compare, how he looked, the interviews he gave and the lyrics he wrote in the gloryhole era , especially the Covenant era, he was a way more serious hard-on bearer. I don't think he rejoined MA because he loves death metal and writing about the occult, I think he re-joined because "Yeah! Gigs! Playing live music! Being cool! Evil! Fun!". I don't even need to THINK that, I know it. All it takes is a simple look at his new lyrics and image and the answer is there.

Yes, absolutely.

And of course, I'm not saying you have to be hardcore serious and dark to play death metal, I mean Cannibal Corpse have admitted they just play for fun because it's like the music equivalent of a horror film, but when you start taking the piss, looking like an idiot and alienating an entire fanbase, that's when the fun side of things have seeped a bit too far into the music!

You're on to something here too imo and I think a comprehensive way of putting it is "be serious about what you have been." So if you are a prolific band then be serious about being serious. If you are a CC type of band be serious about being fun and like a horror film as they put it. So on and so forth...

[RitesOfPossession]

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]You're on to something here too imo and I think a comprehensive way of putting it is "be serious about what you have been." So if you are a prolific band then be serious about being serious. If you are a CC type of band be serious about being fun and like a horror film as they put it. So on and so forth...[/quote]

And I'd like to think that, if they ever wanted to put out a drum and bass record CC would have the good sesne to do it as a side project.

[shubniggurath]

[quote name="Uros"]I don't know how you can MOCK death metal Gods. Total lack of respect and bowing to Morbid Angel faithfully. You don't deserve to be fans of mighty Morbid Angel [/quote]

You forgot "splendidly."

[Methuselah Honeysuckle]

hes kinda like ndmg

[Mr. P]

But he was here long before ndmg.

[vO)))id]

he was kidding you dummies

[Abzu]

Oh come on. Uros is nothing like ndmg. He was taking the piss - mocking gjmalaghjkar and WTSL. Karmablade is a fucking looney cunt.

[Mr. P]

Oh damnit, I got Nick reply backwards.

[quote name="VΩI∆"]he was kidding you dummies[/quote]



this.