hey TranscendingMusic, regarding the occult...

[Uni777]

Ever notice something weird about the Covenant Cover?

[Uni777]

Since more people looked at this..:





And something even more puzzeling:

[zim]

i was always confused about different versions of that cover not having those circular symbols

[Uni777]

Yes but that is not what i ment... I have that book. The left sigil is not supposed to be there. It is the same one as on the right only with added color. It is a montage. It covers the sigil which was originally in the book. I've looked at that page multiple times but have not been able to understand the purpose....

[Spirits of the Deep Waters]

It's the book of ceremonial magick.

[Uni777]

Yes indeed (you can read that from the cover), or the complete grimoire, or the book of black magic. It is published in many versions.

Point is, why change the sigil. What's the meaning?

[bob_here]

Ah this is a nice one uni777, interesting...



I had my thoughts about this discrepency. There's 3 things that I see here:

1) The intent within the passages themselves

2) The mirror aspect and how it pertains to the occult in general

3) The discrepency itself and its meaning



So for point 1, in the book the intent within this section is: overall omniscence, protection by means of rebellion and the option to punish your enemies or evil persons against you.

Pretty cool, especially considering overall MA themes and also specifically Covenant.



For point 2, well it seems now Trey has or keeps a mindful interest in the mirroring idea. We see it on Heretic as well in the graphics. Generally, in the occult, mirrors are a way to peer into "the spirit world". Mirroring as an effect demonstrates the function of this percieved tool within this use specifically. We also see the use of mirrors and their shattered state on Gateways which to me has meaning twofold: one,

the album and theme is to annihilate mundane sense of the self which can be conveyed through vanity and a mirror in its every day use. Two, in the occult sense again, a way of annihilating older limiting beliefs

as those beliefs are again represented through the "spirit world" channeling tool i.e the mirror.



For point 3 finally, we've all heard the "Left-hand" path expression. The left hand or any attribute of being left-handed was deemed as evil or being possessed. Actually, I know a person in his early 30's whose father

grew up in Italy and was forced to use his right hand because he was naturally left handed. So these fanatical motifs were not too long ago lol. Even the word sinestra in italian means left hand which means sinister! literally translated. So the reason I am talking about the left hand so much is because in magic, this aspect is used as a further power enhancing atttribute. The knowledge of the "nefarious left hand" only increases the affectiveness (whether mentally or literally depending on how you believe in it) of the ceremony itself. Since the sigil of Talisman XII was duplicated it's interesting to this degree because the instructions are: "It should be placed upon a table, the left hand imposed upon it". Not only does this duplication reinforce the practical aspect of the spell which is to destroy adverse forces against oneself and/or invoke rebellious spirits but it doubles up as 2 LEFT HANDS; as the repetition of double the left-hand path which enhances the darkness and sinister aspect of it all.





I have to say though, the variations of how the sigils are missing at times creates an errie quality just as well ahah, kind of cool.

[Uni777]

[quote name="TranscendingMusic"]Ah this is a nice one uni777, interesting...



I had my thoughts about this discrepency. There's 3 things that I see here:

1) The intent within the passages themselves

2) The mirror aspect and how it pertains to the occult in general

3) The discrepency itself and its meaning



So for point 1, in the book the intent within this section is: overall omniscence, protection by means of rebellion and the option to punish your enemies or evil persons against you.

Pretty cool, especially considering overall MA themes and also specifically Covenant.



For point 2, well it seems now Trey has or keeps a mindful interest in the mirroring idea. We see it on Heretic as well in the graphics. Generally, in the occult, mirrors are a way to peer into "the spirit world". Mirroring as an effect demonstrates the function of this percieved tool within this use specifically. We also see the use of mirrors and their shattered state on Gateways which to me has meaning twofold: one,

the album and theme is to annihilate mundane sense of the self which can be conveyed through vanity and a mirror in its every day use. Two, in the occult sense again, a way of annihilating older limiting beliefs

as those beliefs are again represented through the "spirit world" channeling tool i.e the mirror.



For point 3 finally, we've all heard the "Left-hand" path expression. The left hand or any attribute of being left-handed was deemed as evil or being possessed. Actually, I know a person in his early 30's whose father

grew up in Italy and was forced to use his right hand because he was naturally left handed. So these fanatical motifs were not too long ago lol. Even the word sinestra in italian means left hand which means sinister! literally translated. So the reason I am talking about the left hand so much is because in magic, this aspect is used as a further power enhancing atttribute. The knowledge of the "nefarious left hand" only increases the affectiveness (whether mentally or literally depending on how you believe in it) of the ceremony itself. Since the sigil of Talisman XII was duplicated it's interesting to this degree because the instructions are: "It should be placed upon a table, the left hand imposed upon it". Not only does this duplication reinforce the practical aspect of the spell which is to destroy adverse forces against oneself and/or invoke rebellious spirits but it doubles up as 2 LEFT HANDS; as the repetition of double the left-hand path which enhances the darkness and sinister aspect of it all.





I have to say though, the variations of how the sigils are missing at times creates an errie quality just as well ahah, kind of cool.[/quote]

I'd figured you'd have a cool hypothesys (sp?) about this

[M.Bison]

It's arcane spot the difference

[vO)))id]

that was some interesting ready TM I really wonder what Trey's thoughts on this are.

[nihilisticgaz]

the document on the left is a replica of a pact supposedly signed by the Devil and a french priest back in the 1600's. More info here if you want it...



<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudun_possessions<!-- m -->



There is also a film called The Devils based on these events, its a fantastic movie if you can track it down.

[Abzu]

The Loudon nuns are subject material I am using for a song in this period.

[Uni777]

[quote name="nihilisticgaz"]the document on the left is a replica of a pact supposedly signed by the Devil and a french priest back in the 1600's. More info here if you want it...



<!-- m -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudun_possessions<!-- m -->



There is also a film called The Devils based on these events, its a fantastic movie if you can track it down.[/quote]

It signed by a whole host of princes and ministers of "Hell"

In almost every book on demonology the aforementioned manuscript comes along.

[Hugo.]

[quote name="desolation"]The Loudon nuns are subject material I am using for a song in this period. [/quote]



Mine are base on sorcery and evil spells