MABB v6.6.6

I downloaded this out of curiosity, since I did not know Ben Stein was a theist. Regardless, while I don't support Intelligent Design, it's fucked up that they can't speak their mind.



I also find it ridiculous how liberal democrats/socialists think that evolution does not lead to Nazi style eugenics. I find this funny, and I like to remind libtards of this whenever possible.

Wait are you saying all liberals like eugenics?





Eugenics was an offshoot of Progressivism not liberalism there is actually a huge difference. I have a lot of liberal friends and while I disagree with them a lot of the time they're good people and it's fun to debate with them and get inside their head.



Are you saying evolution leads to eugenics? How does using fossil evidence to support theories such as evolution lead to eugenics?



You do realize that they have a lot facts supporting their theory right?



Take whales for instance:

They find ancient mammal bones that look similar to our wolves

Find whale bones with hip joints similar

find linking fossils

boom whales came from mammals through evolution



I'm a JEffersonian Libertarian and don't get what you're trying to say with that one.





Don't forget eugenics did happen here in America to and is still practiced to an extent with organizations such as planned parenthood (look where their clinics are placed). Some in the current administration even support forced sterilization, mainly John Holdren Obama's science Czar. So yes the progressive movement from the early 1900s does still linger in our society but they're loons for the most part. I could rant about this more but I'm not going to.







Now: Yes people should be allowed to discuss intelligent design and even creationism, should it be taught in schools...well that would be an infringement on seperation of church and state.

I support eugenics. I just laugh at the liberal hypocrisy.



I think the liberal view is flawed, they support ideologies that contradict their political ideals, but pretend that they do not.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]I support eugenics. I just laugh at the liberal hypocrisy.



I think the liberal view is flawed, they support ideologies that contradict their political ideals, but pretend that they do not.[/quote]



Wait you support weakening our gene pool?

Nobody has the right to say who can and can't have children. That is a major infringement on the individual and something I'm appauled to hear anyone supports.



Eugenics never has and never will work, you fuck with nature it fucks with you back.



Pure bred dogs prove this to be true, and honestly dog breeding isn't that different from eugenics. I'm sorry but I think people are above dogs and shouldn't be treated as such.

There is no "discrimination against theists in science" as the illiterate eye-drop advertiser tries to ram home in the movie. You perform experiments/observations, gather evidence, then try to publish their findings(if any) in a peer-reviewed journal, like everyone else. Intelligent design proponents have done zero of these steps and whine about their pseudoscience not being given "equal time" in school. Special pleading at its finest. The film is chock full of intellectual dishonesty and downright lies, but I'd be expecting too much of an ignoramus like UGK to see through them.



And evolution ≠ justification for the pseudoscience of eugenics. Indeed 60,000 Americans were sterilized under a eugenics policy throughout the last century, which was supported by democrat and republican presidents alike, before anyone starts to think they can claim the higher moral ground.

[quote name="Lavabug"]There is no "discrimination against theists in science" as the illiterate eye-drop advertiser tries to ram home in the movie. You perform experiments/observations, gather evidence, then try to publish their findings(if any) in a peer-reviewed journal, like everyone else. Intelligent design proponents have done zero of these steps and whine about their pseudoscience not being given "equal time" in school. Special pleading at its finest. The film is chock full of intellectual dishonesty and downright lies, but I'd be expecting too much of an ignoramus like UGK to see through them.



And evolution ≠ justification for the pseudoscience of eugenics. Indeed 60,000 Americans were sterilized under a eugenics policy throughout the last century, which was supported by democrat and republican presidents alike, before anyone starts to think they can claim the higher moral ground.[/quote]



Progressives supported (and still support) eugenics, progressives are democrats, republicans, and independants.



I've done a lot of research on the subject of eugenics and progressives.



Seriously look up Planned Parenthood's founder and you'll see it's still encouraged in some circles that are more mainstream than we'd like to admit.

ID proponents are completely free to speak their mind. when they try to do so within a formal scientific context though, they are going to be told (in much more elaborate and convincing manners than i'm willing to put forth right here) to shut the fuck up, because ID is not science, it's a very poorly disguised wedge to get creationism into public school curricula. the one legitimate-sounding idea (irreducible complexity! check out all them syllables!) they had boiled down to, "well we don't yet know how this came together, therefore intelligent design!", and has been repeatedly torn to shreds in the scientific literature and in US courts.

My whole criticism of the issue is, it seems to be the exact same thing the church use to do. It either conforms with our beliefs, or we shut it down.



[quote name="Noyka"]

Wait you support weakening our gene pool?

Nobody has the right to say who can and can't have children. That is a major infringement on the individual and something I'm appauled to hear anyone supports.



Eugenics never has and never will work, you fuck with nature it fucks with you back.



Pure bred dogs prove this to be true, and honestly dog breeding isn't that different from eugenics. I'm sorry but I think people are above dogs and shouldn't be treated as such.[/quote] We'll it can't happen in a free democracy, but we're moving past that now anyway.



The issue with pure bred dogs I am assuming is also the same problem with incest, etc. There is not enough gene variation. That can be worked around.



If a Spanish person is "pure bred" does he have any issues? No.



[quote name="Lavabug"]There is no "discrimination against theists in science" as the illiterate eye-drop advertiser tries to ram home in the movie. You perform experiments/observations, gather evidence, then try to publish their findings(if any) in a peer-reviewed journal, like everyone else. Intelligent design proponents have done zero of these steps and whine about their pseudoscience not being given "equal time" in school. Special pleading at its finest. The film is chock full of intellectual dishonesty and downright lies, but I'd be expecting too much of an ignoramus like UGK to see through them.



And evolution ≠ justification for the pseudoscience of eugenics. Indeed 60,000 Americans were sterilized under a eugenics policy throughout the last century, which was supported by democrat and republican presidents alike, before anyone starts to think they can claim the higher moral ground.[/quote]

Nice little attack. Very mature of you .



I don't pay much attention to this field, so I have not seen evidence pointing towards ID, but people should be free to speak their minds. If they say "Well ID is possible", they shouldn't be fired over it.



"Academic dishonesty"? Like those ACORN videos right? The old "It doesn't count unless we know the intentions" bit?



Eugenics and Social Darwinism are hardly pseudosciences.



[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]ID proponents are completely free to speak their mind. when they try to do so within a formal scientific context though, they are going to be told (in much more elaborate and convincing manners than i'm willing to put forth right here) to shut the fuck up, because ID is not science, it's a very poorly disguised wedge to get creationism into public school curricula. the one legitimate-sounding idea (irreducible complexity! check out all them syllables!) they had boiled down to, "well we don't yet know how this came together, therefore intelligent design!", and has been repeatedly torn to shreds in the scientific literature and in US courts.[/quote] Maybe we shouldn't teach anything relating to the creation of species in public schools. I don't think anyone criticizes that evolution has occurred, I think the main criticism is that they came from one species in the beginning.

Science (from the Latin "scire", to know) is not a democracy, opinions and speculations are worthless. No one prohibits people from talking about intelligent design, but to discuss any idea in an academic context you must have some credibility, evidence, etc. ID proponents(in the vast majority non-scientists, the Discovery Institute is made up of mostly lawyers and theologians) have none, and quite rightly get ridiculed for it.



I apologize for being so harsh right off the bat, but when you make comments like these and pretend to know what you're talking about:

[quote name="Uber Grim Kult"]

The issue with pure bred dogs I am assuming is also the same problem with incest, etc. There is not enough gene variation. That can be worked around.



If a Spanish person is "pure bred" does he have any issues? No.



Eugenics and Social Darwinism are hardly pseudosciences.



Maybe we shouldn't teach anything relating to the creation of species in public schools. I don't think anyone criticizes that evolution has occurred, I think the main criticism is that they came from one species in the beginning.[/quote]



... I can hardly restrain myself from calling you an ignoramus. It's for your own good.



Evolution implies that all species are traceable to a common simple ancestor, it's mentioned in The Origin of Species. It's not about abiogenesis, evolutionary biology is not concerned with how the first organism came into being, but the events that came afterwards that explain the diversity of life and increasing complexity in organisms over large time spans (the film says otherwise, but it's demonstrably true).

There is no scientific fact (or widely accepted theory as far as I know) on how life began. Evolution did occur as far as we know, but we do not know how those single celled organisms formed. RNA is a beginning.



Please, quit with the pseudo-elitism. It just makes you look foolish.

Well that's the thing, science is all about methodology, not conclusions. Creationists reject coherent and rational methodology, so accepting their views is a self-detonating negation of any sort of standard.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]My whole criticism of the issue is, it seems to be the exact same thing the church use to do. It either conforms with our beliefs, or we shut it down.



[quote name="Noyka"]

Wait you support weakening our gene pool?

Nobody has the right to say who can and can't have children. That is a major infringement on the individual and something I'm appauled to hear anyone supports.



Eugenics never has and never will work, you fuck with nature it fucks with you back.



Pure bred dogs prove this to be true, and honestly dog breeding isn't that different from eugenics. I'm sorry but I think people are above dogs and shouldn't be treated as such.[/quote] We'll it can't happen in a free democracy, but we're moving past that now anyway.



The issue with pure bred dogs I am assuming is also the same problem with incest, etc. There is not enough gene variation. That can be worked around.



If a Spanish person is "pure bred" does he have any issues? No.



[/quote]



When you're breeding for certain traits you're bound to have unforeseen consequences. All previous experiments with Eugenics have proven this to be true. Eugenics isn't a pseudoscience it's a lie. Not to mention the possible disorders and new mutations that could come from eugenics. Forced sterilization is simply not acceptable.





The issue with mainstream scientist being like fundies I agree with you but that's something that's been going on sinin every society and I seriously doubt anyone is going to change that.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]There is no scientific fact (or widely accepted theory as far as I know) on how life began. Evolution did occur as far as we know, but we do not know how those single celled organisms formed. RNA is a beginning.



Please, quit with the pseudo-elitism. It just makes you look foolish.[/quote]



abiogenesis is the theory of how single celled organisms were formed and how the proteins and what not came together to create life.

Why do you support eugenics, UGK? Which people would you kill/sterilize?

[quote name="Redd"]Why do you support eugenics, UGK? Which people would you kill/sterilize?[/quote]

Well there are obviously problems in genetic streams. I support eugenics because in our liberal society, we want to artificially preserve those that could not survive on their own, and are simply leeches on society. Even if one has nothing to contribute, he should at least be able to pull his own weight.



For practical reasons I would sterilize the hopeless poor. i.e. families that are consistently poor, and do not try to better their situation. Like urban black families/white trash, etc. "I ain't gettin' no job, i'll just get welfare", etc.



Welfare is perfectly fine if one losses his job and cannot find work, but someone who lives off of it without trying to find a job is scum.



Those that I would exterminate are the mentally ill.

exterminate the mentally ill? what's the beneft to society?



OK, whose definitions of mentall illness are we using? the DSM-IV? what happens when the DSM-V comes out in a year or two or three?



which mental illnesses are eligible for termination, and why?

50% of the population lives on less than $2 a day. You want all of them dead, even though they're being exploited? What about you? You're more of a leech than them. You probably drive a car that runs on gasoline, your electricity most likely comes from coal, I bet you have heating oil, and let's not forget all of that food you eat and water you drink. If anyone should be killed off, it should be the priviledged like us, since we're devouring resources at a phenomenal rate.

[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]exterminate the mentally ill? what's the beneft to society?



OK, whose definitions of mentall illness are we using? the DSM-IV? what happens when the DSM-V comes out in a year or two or three?



which mental illnesses are eligible for termination, and why?[/quote]



The DSM is such a pile of wank.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]
[quote name="Redd"]Why do you support eugenics, UGK? Which people would you kill/sterilize?[/quote]

Well there are obviously problems in genetic streams. I support eugenics because in our liberal society, we want to artificially preserve those that could not survive on their own, and are simply leeches on society. Even if one has nothing to contribute, he should at least be able to pull his own weight.



For practical reasons I would sterilize the hopeless poor. i.e. families that are consistently poor, and do not try to better their situation. Like urban black families/white trash, etc. "I ain't gettin' no job, i'll just get welfare", etc.



Welfare is perfectly fine if one losses his job and cannot find work, but someone who lives off of it without trying to find a job is scum.



Those that I would exterminate are the mentally ill.[/quote]



Two questions: who the hell made you god?



Who are you to decide someone's worth based on wealth or mental capacity?

I sard reading all

[quote name="Redd"]50% of the population lives on less than $2 a day. You want all of them dead, even though they're being exploited? What about you? You're more of a leech than them. You probably drive a car that runs on gasoline, your electricity most likely comes from coal, I bet you have heating oil, and let's not forget all of that food you eat and water you drink. If anyone should be killed off, it should be the priviledged like us, since we're devouring resources at a phenomenal rate.[/quote]

Quit being such a communist. I'm not even going to reply to that.



[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]exterminate the mentally ill? what's the beneft to society?[/quote] More room in hospitals, less money going to waste, etc.



[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]OK, whose definitions of mentall illness are we using? the DSM-IV? what happens when the DSM-V comes out in a year or two or three?[/quote]

It will be based off of Axis 2 (excluding personality "disorders"), 3, and 5.



[quote name="Noyka"]

Two questions: who the hell made you god?



Who are you to decide someone's worth based on wealth or mental capacity?[/quote]

One answer for both: I did. If I didn't, who else would?

What a cop out

Are there any mentally ill in your family uber grim kult?

50% of the population lives on less than $2 a day. You want all of them dead, even though they're being exploited? What about you? You're more of a leech than them. You probably drive a car that runs on gasoline, your electricity most likely comes from coal, I bet you have heating oil, and let's not forget all of that food you eat and water you drink. If anyone should be killed off, it should be the priviledged like us, since we're devouring resources at a phenomenal rate.

Quit being such a communist. I'm not even going to reply to that.

Give me a proper response next time. Communist? Intelligent reply.

Are there any mentally ill in your family uber grim kult?

Yeah, him.

[quote name="hafsteinn"]Are there any mentally ill in your family uber grim kult?[/quote]

No. I do live near a "workshop" however. It artificially puts mentally retarded to work and teaches them things.

ok, I just think if there were then maybe your views would be different. At least ethically you should yourself be prepared to do it.

UGK

Axis II is almost entirely personality disorders, and Axis III & V aren't even categories of mental illnesses.



what you're saying in effect is that you want retarded people to be killed -- everyone else is OK though, unless they're poor

And most poor people are poor because they have very little education, and thus cannot get up in the social structure (hence why they end up committing crimes and going to prison).

[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]Axis II is almost entirely personality disorders, and Axis III & V aren't even categories of mental illnesses.



what you're saying in effect is that you want retarded people to be killed -- everyone else is OK though, unless they're poor[/quote]



Would you agree that the DSM is but a pile of wank?

seriously though we gotta get rid of all the retards 'cuz they're taking up all the room in the hospitals! it's true, you know. they wouldn't let my father stay in the ICU after the first month because some retard needed to get up in that bed

[quote name="Johnny"]
[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]Axis II is almost entirely personality disorders, and Axis III & V aren't even categories of mental illnesses.



what you're saying in effect is that you want retarded people to be killed -- everyone else is OK though, unless they're poor[/quote]



Would you agree that the DSM is but a pile of wank?[/quote]



100% sir



but if you're going to use it as a reference or guidebook to cherry-picking the best sterilization candidates though, he's doing it really, really wrong

[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]
[quote name="Johnny"]
[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]Axis II is almost entirely personality disorders, and Axis III & V aren't even categories of mental illnesses.



what you're saying in effect is that you want retarded people to be killed -- everyone else is OK though, unless they're poor[/quote]



Would you agree that the DSM is but a pile of wank?[/quote]



100% sir



but if you're going to use it as a reference or guidebook to cherry-picking the best sterilization candidates though, he's doing it really, really wrong[/quote]



DSM-V is likely to be the worst yet.

lol ugk is a fucking moron

I'm starting to seriously think UGK is a troll

The only true measure of worth is genetic adaptability, the determinant factor in evolutionary survival. Every other measuring stick is man-made.

Pretty sure all measuring sticks are man-made.



But seriously, I have no idea what your post means.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]
[quote name="Redd"]Why do you support eugenics, UGK? Which people would you kill/sterilize?[/quote]

Well there are obviously problems in genetic streams. I support eugenics because in our liberal society, we want to artificially preserve those that could not survive on their own, and are simply leeches on society. Even if one has nothing to contribute, he should at least be able to pull his own weight.



For practical reasons I would sterilize the hopeless poor. i.e. families that are consistently poor, and do not try to better their situation. Like urban black families/white trash, etc. "I ain't gettin' no job, i'll just get welfare", etc.



Welfare is perfectly fine if one losses his job and cannot find work, but someone who lives off of it without trying to find a job is scum.



Those that I would exterminate are the mentally ill.[/quote]So your argument is that since people are harming your livelihood, they need to have their rights taken away. What does that say about the eugenicist?



I can't wrap my head around this Randroid crap that attacks the "looters", without bothering to examine what drove them to become looters in the first place. Welfare is just a natural consequence of what happens when the state fucks around with voluntary economic action. Just fucking look around you; haven't you noticed how many people have ended up on welfare and/or joining the military since the recession really picked up steam? I almost fell into that trap myself.



In a truly free civilization, welfare would be very short-lived and unintrusive. By all I means I agree it's sad that you and I have to foot the bill for the welfare state, but that's precisely why you need to direct your hatred towards the system, not the people who are forced to live off of it.



It's so god damn simple. Would you have to pay for welfare if the state-capitalists weren't pointing their guns at you?

Wellfare and poverty are simply results of a monetary based system period.

[quote name="Noyka"]I'm starting to seriously think UGK is a troll[/quote]

[quote name="Johnny"]Pretty sure all measuring sticks are man-made.



But seriously, I have no idea what your post means.[/quote]

Evolution is dominated not by the physically strong, willful nor intelligent; but rather, the most adaptable. That's a natural measuring stick.

I bet UGK believes in "human nature" and that a person's genes determines who they are.



[quote name="Noyka"]Wellfare and poverty are simply results of a monetary based system period.[/quote]

[quote name="abzu"]
[quote name="Johnny"]Pretty sure all measuring sticks are man-made.



But seriously, I have no idea what your post means.[/quote]

Evolution is dominated not by the physically strong, willful nor intelligent; but rather, the most adaptable. That's a natural measuring stick.[/quote]



Most adapted (in terms of their genes) to any given environment.

Not the most adaptable.



Although this could be just a terminology difference, not an actual disagreement.

Using his logic shouldn't Uber Grim Kvlt be the first to get offed considering he's the most retarded on this board

and more likely than not the most poor

[quote name="Famous Mortimer"]Axis II is almost entirely personality disorders, and Axis III & V aren't even categories of mental illnesses.



what you're saying in effect is that you want retarded people to be killed -- everyone else is OK though, unless they're poor[/quote]

Hopeless poor. Those that don't wish to better their situation, and live off of welfare.



[quote name="Redd"]And most poor people are poor because they have very little education, and thus cannot get up in the social structure (hence why they end up committing crimes and going to prison).[/quote]

We have public school. They decide to drop out. Whos fault is that?



[quote name="Noyka"]I'm starting to seriously think UGK is a troll[/quote]

No, when I troll a site, I shut it down. Just because my opinion does not conform to what you have been taught is right, does not make it trolling.



Not to mention I've been on this board for 2 years.



[quote name="Chaohinon"]

I can't wrap my head around this Randroid crap that attacks the "looters", without bothering to examine what drove them to become looters in the first place. [/quote]

I do not support Ayn Rand



[quote name="Chaohinon"]Welfare is just a natural consequence of what happens when the state fucks around with voluntary economic action. Just fucking look around you; haven't you noticed how many people have ended up on welfare and/or joining the military since the recession really picked up steam? I almost fell into that trap myself.[/quote]

Yes, when the economy dives, people loose their jobs. What sets this group apart is that they are still looking for work.



[quote name="Chaohinon"]In a truly free civilization, welfare would be very short-lived and unintrusive. By all I means I agree it's sad that you and I have to foot the bill for the welfare state, but that's precisely why you need to direct your hatred towards the system, not the people who are forced to live off of it.[/quote] Maybe you have no encountered people who "work the system". It's truly horrible.



[quote name="Chaohinon"]It's so god damn simple. Would you have to pay for welfare if the state-capitalists weren't pointing their guns at you?[/quote] When you say capitalism, then what do you support? Socialism and communism make it all much worse.



Our country has issues, and I am afraid it needs to be destroyed and rebuilt.



[quote name="Redd"]I bet UGK believes in "human nature" and that a person's genes determines who they are.[/quote]

All species have a nature to them. Lizards who are never raised by their mothers know what they need to do inherently.



As far as genes, I am not decided on that issue quite yet.

We have public school. They decide to drop out. Whos fault is that?

Have you been to a public school? That's not education. They're better off dropping out and getting real work experience.

When you say capitalism, then what do you support? Socialism and communism make it all much worse.

I support anything that doesn't involve violent statist coercion. That means communists and capitalists can be either friends or enemies, depending on whether or not they're willing to use violence as a tool for social control.

[quote name="Chaohinon"]

Have you been to a public school? That's not education. They're better off dropping out and getting real work experience[/quote]

Oh I know. But once they complete that they can go to college and actually learn something.



I think we should get rid of public schools and move to a voucher program.

[quote name="Chaohinon"]

I support anything that doesn't involve violent statist coercion. That means communists and capitalists can be either friends or enemies, depending on whether or not they're willing to use violence as a tool for social control.[/quote]

Any effective government has to use social control.

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]Any effective government has to use social control.[/quote]

That's precisely my point. By using force and control, government is essentially admitting defeat, as it couldn't survive without pointing guns at people (or rather, convincing them to point guns at each other).



You don't have to go around killing and beating and yelling at people to get your groceries, clothing, transportation, etc. do you?

[quote name="Uber Grim Kvlt"]Hopeless poor. Those that don't wish to better their situation, and live off of welfare.[/quote]



Remember what I said about 50% of the population living on less than two dollars at day? What are you going to do about them? Shoot them? Where will you get your clothing then? It's those people who are slave larborers and make most of the shit you use in your daily life.